S. bandensis at the California Academy of Sciences

[Thales]

Venting is fine, accusatory writing is a little hard to take.

We are all working together. TONMO is a unique community where private hobbyists, public aquarists and research scientists regularly contribute. It is truly amazing that this continued participation has lasted and grown - it is something that is sorely missing is the rest of the marine hobby.

You mention seahorses, but most public aquariums are constrained by the same restrictions about sharing animals with non accredited entities. My reading of the seahorse forums is that public aquarists and researchers participate very rarely. The difference seems to be, IMO, that way more people are breeding seahorses than are breeding cephs, so it seems like things are more open because there are more animals available.

I am confused by your calling my good work (thanks!) secret when I have been posting about it here.

Institutions restrict who gets their surplus animals for many reasons, and I think we shouldn't dismiss them because they are inconvenient to us. For instance, my private breeding of cuttles meant that I had to send animals to people who I knew wouldn't be able to keep them, but I wanted their money and needed to unload the animals. A public institution is under no such pressure and sending animals to people who can't take care of them is an anathema. I used to think it would be easy to vet individuals to allow such institutions to send them animals, but seeing it from the other side, it is simply not that easy, and the resources may simply not be there. Sending animals only to institutions that have been 'pre vetted' is easier, and allows for easier tracking of the animals over time (sending to hobbyists and asking for feedback is often met with silence - from personal pre public aquarium experience). Also, finding the time to send 200 eggs is hard enough, finding the time to send 10 to 10 different people would be incredibly difficult. These are some of the reasons behind public institutions not sending animals to private individuals, but are no means all of them.
When I first started with cuttles I too was frustrated with not being able to get animals, but quickly understood and respected the reasoning behind it.

I hope that in the future, before getting upset, you ask about some of the whys. On TONMO at least, you'll be able to get both sides of the story.

 

[Thales]

PS. Sending you a hatchling now will do you no good. Introducing it to your 5 month old animal will prolly end up with your current cuttle having a snack.

 

[MrED]

Well put!!!
I was not angry and like you said, you were here before getting your position.
A hobbyist doesn't really do it for the money just to keep things running. (my opinion only) I have given lots of macro algae I have grown away, for free and paid the shipping, just so others can enjoy. (far from being wealthy)
I guess, my thoughts in helping might be different than others. Like the old saying "actions are stronger than words".
Sorry for making it seem that institutions don't care, they are in the business of Education.
If little voices like my self don't get out then all seems to be OK.
Thanks for the input.
Thales, you have to remember, you were a big part of getting CB cuttles actually the only one I knew of.
It would be like McDonalds only serving the White House.
So much would be lost. I guess we would have to be happy for them.

 

[Thales]

Thanks!

Remember also that breeding cuttles was very expensive without much payback. There was only so much I could do out of my own pocket. I really tried to make a go of it, but the market just isn't there. Truthfully, the only reasons I am working with bandensis now is because its through work.

 

[MrED]

And you personally have done a superb job. (guess if I started now, I would not even want them) I have experiance with Wild Caught Seahorses ( some do well if treated properly) but don't compare at all to CB. I am sure it is the same with the cuttles and Ocotpus. Timing is everything!!!
If anyone wants to delete this conversation, please feel free to.
NOTE::: I still want Institutions to sell their products. Ha! Ha!

 

[DWhatley]

Excellent discussion gentlemen.

 

[Thales]

Interestingly enough, it turns out we have too many and are trying to work out a way to get them into the supply chain for individuals. There is no way we can handle it ourselves, but I am working on getting them to an online supplier. I'll let you know if and when it happens.

 

[MrED]

That would be awesome!!

 

[flaherty8153]

After all of that I don't know if I would those cuttles might already be to institutionalized for Mr. Ed .

 

[hobogato]

Interestingly enough, it turns out we have too many and are trying to work out a way to get them into the supply chain for individuals. There is no way we can handle it ourselves, but I am working on getting them to an online supplier. I'll let you know if and when it happens.

what about public schools with marine bio programs? i know it would be nice to get some for my classroom, but there may be other schools that have programs or want to start programs that will breed them. just food for thought

 

[DWhatley]

hobogato,
The NRCC (National Resource Center for Cephalopods) is set up to handle educational institute requests (and does not sell to the public). Thales mentioned that they are sending some to that facility for educational distribution. I think one of the things Thales is trying to point out is that they do not have the staff to handle many small orders, regardless of the ultimate housing. Shipping any of them is an extra work load on the current staff and facilities as they are not set up to be a shipping envionment.

 

[hobogato]

sorry if i wasnt clear d, i wasnt trying to push anything, just throwing out ideas since he said they had too many

 

[corpusse]

Looks like you've raised quite a few, what is the survival rate to adulthood?

 

[DWhatley]

Thales, it just occured to me that this is yet another example of a good year for cephs - are these eggs from wild caught or a second generation?

 

[MrED]

After all of that I don't know if I would those cuttles might already be to institutionalized for Mr. Ed .

After having a discussion in English class today, about lowering the drinking age to 18, maybe I need to be institutionalized.
Wisdom and common sense seems not important anymore.
Where did you get that tomato? are you sure it is legal to throw? (heck, its life span is probably longer than the cuttle's)