what species is this?

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by Tomeczek, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    just traded in my previous octopus because he never came out of his rock, never interacted. this guy on the other hand is always out during the day.

    any idea what species it is?


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  2. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    also if you notice his right eye is bigger, can an octo get pop eye? :/ if so how do i treat it ?
     
  3. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Unfortunately, a swollen eye is likely to be an infection and is very serious. If it is still eating you can try tetracycilne (available for fish without a prescriptoin) or neomycin in its food but eye infections are a bad sign.

    Are there any false eyespots (distinct circles on the webbing below the eye on each side). The bottom photo shows what might be a shaddow or an eyespot. The arm look a bit short for aculeatus (my first guess) and hummelincki and aculeatus look similar in photos (both are diurnal). Hummelincki will have an arm length of 1.5 to 2 times the mantle length and is stouter than aculeatus. Aculeatus appears more graceful with arms 2 to 4 times the mantle length. Both tend to show a purple ring around the outside of the suckers.

    Octopuses do require much more patience than most other critters. Unfortunately, one that is immediatly active and not shy is likely to be in a senescent state.
     
  4. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    christ i dont want to lose this guy!! i will go to the petstore tomorrow to buy that medication

    he will eat from my hand!

    this little fella is absolutely crazy, hes all over my tank swimming around right in front of my face changing his colors to every wall he bounces to, not scared at all. so much better than the briarus, which wouldnt come out for any reason.

    here are some more pictures maybe these will help ID it

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  5. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    er

    can i get any of these antibiotics at CVS or would i have to drive all the way to the petstore? how do you treat your octopus with it? just put it in their food?
     
  6. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Unfortunately, the very busied movement (along with a weakened immune system) is highly suggestive of senescence (old age). Treating with antibiotics will not harm, may help with the infection, but will not slow the aging process. I don't know if the excessive activity could be directly related to the infection only so attacking it would be my suggestion, regardless of the reason.

    Call your petstore to see if they have Fish Cycline. You can call CVS to see if you can get (and if they have any in stock) a human version without a perscription (explain it is for a fish - they will never believe octopus) but it is unlikely. If you can't find tetracycline, look at the medications that they do have (will not likely to be able to be done over the phone) and see if they have anything with Kanamycin Sulfate and/or Neomycin Sulfate (can be given together). These are the only drugs that have been (along with betadine for topical treatment in a QT) sited as having been used on octos (and are commonly used to treat other marine creatures like seahorses). If you find a cocktail antibiotic make sure there is NO copper but other ingredients are unsited as far a negative effect in our journals (to my memory and short search). If you are going to treat it is important to try it immediately as if the infection worsens, he won't eat and will be impossible to medicate.

    Here is one discussion on trying to give tetracycline.

    I am thinking hummelincki (do you see the purple/blue rings around the suckers I mentioned?) because of the arm length but finding the eyespots (or determining there are not any) would help confirm or deny my guess. I still think the arms are too short for aculeatus (but they can throw them to escape preditors so length is not always a go by) but we occasionally animals without eyespots that are similar to hummelincki but come from Indonesia or the Phillipines and have never labeled these with a species. Look at the List of our Octopuses (Forums->Journals and Photos then top of page) for 2008 and 2009 and scan for hummelinlcki then look at the posts and photos to see if it helps with an identification.
     
  7. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    so you are saying this octopus may be of old age? hes so small though, compared to my previous which was a briarus... i'll have him treated tomorrow. thank you for the help. also i dont see any "false eyes" under his.
     
  8. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Have a look at my Maya. At post 14 there are a series of shots and one shows the eyespots clearly. It was rare to look at her and not see her ocellus. On both my prior males (Octane and OhToo) the spots were usually visible as well, however Neogonodactylus found some similarly mislabled and it was quite awhile until the eyespots were seen.

    In one of you pictures, there are two dark spots (the ocellus shows with a variation in coloration depending on the octos temprement and situation) positioned where the ocellus would be found but this may be shadow (and I have seen eyespots in photos in the past that were not there in reality).
     

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  9. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    hmm it appears that your octo has an enlarged right eye as well... maybe this is just how they are? at least its what i see in picture "accCrabShellsUnderWeb02.JPG"

    i will look for those eyes tomorrow morning, hes sleeping now
     
  10. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Maya, no(if it appears so, it is the camera angle), but if you are looking at OhToo, yes. I did not want to mention it, as he died as the infection got worse and stayed enlarged after he was preserved as yo can see at the end of the journal.

    Briareus is the largest of the octos we commonly keep in a home aquarium. There are a couple of nocturnals (fully nocturnal not crepsecular like briareus) that grow to about the same size but they don't show up on TONMO often. Interestingly, briareus seems to be the only one that size gives a pretty good indication of age.

    Rereviewing your photos, I believe your new octopus is a male based upon the third arm to the right. In the photo where he is showing a yellowish color, you can clearly see he is keeping it rolled up where the other arms are extended. The front two arms look thinner and shorter than the others and this has been common with the hummelincki but again, amputation and regrowth can make this kind of observation limiting for diagnosing species.
     
  11. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    ok its def a hummelincki then, the eyespots are visible and he is still eating shrimp from my hand... I just started treating him with tetracycline by letting frozen shrimp thaw out in a cup mixed with a small amount. i hope he makes it. thanks again for all of your help
     
  12. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    My fingers are crossed that the eye swelling will decrease and not increase and I hope you will keep his progress noted here. Of the octopuses I have kept, this is my favorite and I keep an open tank for one if I don't have one in residence.
     
  13. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    ok this guy is getting out of hand,

    he is throwing himself across the aquarium pouncing on rocks and walls like a maniac changing colors every few seconds. when i put my face to the glass he gets right to it and relaxes and seems curious i guess?

    it doesnt look like hes trying to escape, my coral banded shrimp is in constant fear for his life haha

    i hope its not the "old age" thing you were talking about this guy is too interesting, i'll call him "crazy" lol
     
  14. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Very unfortunately, yes, what you are seeing is a typical sign of senescence. Here is an abstract on a paper authored by TONMO Ceph (Dr. James Wood) and Roland Anderson that discusses octopus senescence:

    Octopus Senescence: The Beginning of the End Authors: Roland C. Anderson a; James B. Wood b; Ruth A. Byrne c
    Senescence is a normal stage of an octopus's life cycle that often occurs before death. Some of the following symptoms typify it: lack of feeding, retraction of skin around the eyes, uncoordinated movement, increased undirected activity, and white unhealing lesions on the body. There is inter- and intraspecific variability. Senescence is not a disease or a result of disease, although diseases can also be a symptom of it. Both males and females go through a senescent stage before dying, the males after mating, the females while brooding eggs and after the eggs hatch. There are many aspects of octopus senescence that have not yet been studied. Ecological implications of senescence are discussed.

    I will PM Ceph to see if we can get a full copy of the paper (the copies I find require membership and/or purchase).

    Be sure to keep the lid closed at all times when you are not immediately at the tank. I lost Octane early as he approached senesence this way and would not want others to go through the pain.
     
  15. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    i have velcrow laying on the openings in the rear of the tank and two rocks on the lids. hopefully its enough, sad this little guy might die soon on me then. if this is the case then i'll be getting another hopefully younger hummi
     
  16. bluespotocto

    bluespotocto Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    Good luck with him. I would also give any thing for a young hummi, but i am not really sure where to get one. I know D got maya from the diver den at live aquaria, but thats the only place that i know have them. Also saltwater fish have them but they usually come sick and die. I think the main spot where people got there hummies was reef scavengers. They dont sell them any more and they were healthy most of the time. So if any one else knows where to get them then i think tom and i would like to know.
     
  17. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I assume you have a cover, it is the turn your back or forget to close the lid that is so important when they start senescing. I was doing extra water changes when Octane started into senescence, got distracted by company and left the lid open (he was sleeping while I was doing the water change). He had escaped the tank once before by climbing out on one side while I was cleaning the other and had climbed the lid several times during cleaning. Until he started into senescence he had never given an indication of wanting to exit the tank. You can find his journal in the list of our octopuses 2008 for more info.
     
  18. Tomeczek

    Tomeczek Cuttlefish Registered

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    so if and when they escape they just sort of climb out, plop onto the carpet and die? or do they go back ?
     
  19. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    You pick them up and put them back in the tank. If you are present during the escape and just return them it there is not much concern. One bimac would climb out regularly without harm but the keeper was always present and controlled the mischeif. Most can survive for a short time (from some of the reports it appears the larger the species the longer it can stay out of water but actual times are not known). Keeping them moist is a known issue so if there is a fan on in the room (as with Octane. I don't know how long he was out of the tank. He did not die that day and might have survived if he had been younger but his skin was badly effected and he started to eat his arms). You can count on it NOT crawling back in on its own. There are numberous documented stories of octos leaving their tanks, invading neighnboring food sources and returning but there are many more reports of finding dried octos behind their tanks.
     
  20. bluespotocto

    bluespotocto Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    An octopus can stay out of the water as long as they want as long as there gills are moist. Also with having there skin get occasionally wet.
     

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