Selling My Home Bred Octo's And Cuttles???

Discussion in 'Sources for Cephalopods and Food' started by MDL1113, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. MDL1113

    MDL1113 Cuttlefish Registered

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    Hello I have a few tanks with Cuttles and Octopus, they are both Breding tanks and they have gotten two full of life can I sell them on ebay or this site? I do not want to give them away for free but i also dont want to just buying more tanks to put them all in..

    What are the laws around selling?
    If any what can i do so i can sell?
     
  2. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    If you can sell the octopuses or not depends on how you collected the Parents. Were the parent octopuses wild caught?
     
  3. MDL1113

    MDL1113 Cuttlefish Registered

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    I am not sure I got the first few of each from a local pet store.
     
  4. MDL1113

    MDL1113 Cuttlefish Registered

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    How does the law work?
     
  5. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Well the reason I asked if there were wild caught is because it is illegal to sell or sell the off spring from wild caught Bimacs if you dont have the proper commercial fishing Lic. I live in Florida and the retail laws vary by State. Here there is a permit that is required to sell any aquatic species be it for Food or Pet. You would have to call you local Game warden and find out.
     
  6. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    What species do you have?

    Nancy
     
  7. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Thats the number one question.
     
  8. MDL1113

    MDL1113 Cuttlefish Registered

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    My octos are bimac!!! I have 4 500g tanks 3 set up for octos and one set up for cuttlefish. I had only a few babys and i kept two and gave the rest to a friend who has a 350g tanks set up for octos.
     
  9. SabrinaR

    SabrinaR Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Registered

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    I found this site... it might help before you call the game warden. http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/commercial/commdescrip.html

    This one should also help you... though I would use control F and type in the word octopus to find any relevant information. http://165.235.95.70/search?q=cache...stylesheet=xfix&output=xml_no_dtd&client=xfix

    I also found this sticky about different laws of collecting and selling you might find helpful...
    http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthr...e-Reserves-Collection-and-Fishing-Regulations
     
  10. rryyddeerr

    rryyddeerr Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    you have a 500 gallon tank for cuttles? didnt i read somewhere you have bandensis? thats a crazy-big tank for such a small species. do you get to see them much?
    love to see some pics of your setup!
    im a bit of a water-hoarder, myself.
     
  11. Joe-Ceph

    Joe-Ceph Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    There is an old thread on Tonmo in which people were wondering if it were legal to catch a bimac in California, with a sport fishing license, and keep it in your aquarium. Someone contacted the California Dept of Fish and Game, and after consulting with their legal/enforcement department, the DFG person replied, in an email, that it was legal, but it was not legal to sell (or barter) the caught octopuses, nor would it be legal to sell any babies that resulted. That's probably true, but it's a California law, and so probably doesn't apply unless you live in California. If you live in another state, and that state doesn't forbid you to sell bimacs that you breed, I can't see how you would be breaking any laws by selling them. I'm not a lawyer, so I might be wrong, but I can't imagine that a resident of some other state could be bound by California law. Do states have reciprocity on fish and game laws?
     
  12. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not sure about your reasoning, that way anyone could sell wild caught bimacs just by catching them and sending them to another state.
     
  13. rryyddeerr

    rryyddeerr Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    is california the only place on earth where these can be acquired?
     
  14. Joe-Ceph

    Joe-Ceph Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    My reasoning is simply that, in general, California has no legal authority to restrict the bahavior of a person who is not in California.

    Even if they did, how would they have jurisdiction to enforce California law in another state? Plus, they would have to care enough to try. Bimacs are extremely abundant, and in no danger of their numbers being depleted, so if a California official noticed that someone in another state were raising and selling baby bimacs, it's hard to imagine that they would go to the trouble to try to do some sort of inter-state prosecution, even if they could. I think it would be wrong for anyone to make a business out of selling any wild caught California animal, without State licensing, monitoring, etc., but IMO selling captive breed animals is all good. I think the only reason it's illegal to sell the babies in California is because its hard to tell captive bread from wild-caught, so enforcement gets hard. If someone in Kansas is selling baby bimacs, it's safe to assume that they are captive bred.

    No, they are plentiful in Baja Mexico too.
     
  15. SabrinaR

    SabrinaR Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Registered

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    I think I agree with Joe-ceph. If I get a bimac shipped to me from California and that animal has babies in my tank here in Texas I am not now nor have I ever been under California law. Unless there are laws in my state which preclude me from selling them I am not braking any laws. There is the chance that California has laws about transporting and then selling but I havent seen anything like that. From what I have seen, most states at the most have reciprocity agreements with neighboring states... its normally not every state. Also as long as the parents arent sold... you arent braking any laws.... its not like you could really sell them after they lay eggs anyway, well you could but thats unethical and stupid. I too am not a lawyer so I am not for sure on this... but it would be worth checking out IMO.


    Hmmm... I think I will talk further with a lawyer friend. We may have something here.
     
  16. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    But I think MDL is from California... anyway I think if he/she gets this permit then they may be good to go...

    You probably need a collector's permit too, it you are collecting them from CA waters...

    http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/commfishbus/cfb_fees.html
     
  17. Joe-Ceph

    Joe-Ceph Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    There is a Receiver's permit and a collector's permit but both species of bimacs are explicitly excluded from collection under the collector's permit, so bimacs may only be collected under a fishing license, and kept, or given away for free. If "a species" is received (even for free) for "marine aquaria pet trade" purposes, then it looks like a Marine Aquaria Receiver's license would be required. Again, I suspect that this law only applies if the receiver is in California. The law says that if the receiver is in California, the permit is required to receive species native to California, even if caught in a neighboring state. Could California possibly require a receiver in Oregon to buy this California permit, to receive a fish caught in Oregon? I don't think so.

    An examination of the law has suggested to me that it is not legal to collect a bimac "for marine aquaria pet trade purposes" as per DFG code Section 8597. So with only a fishing license I may catch a bimac and keep it, or give it away for food purposes, or for someone's personal pet, but I can't legally give it to someone who will sell it, or (presumably) sell the offspring. Nuts!
     
  18. Markushka

    Markushka Blue Ring Registered

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    now, what if you breed the captive-bred offspring of a wild caught animal? would you in that case still not be able to sell them? These laws are often very silly. they pass something and then figure out what they are enforcing.
     
  19. SabrinaR

    SabrinaR Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Registered

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    Where would you get the animal to breed with the captive bred octos? Unless you are going to inbreed which I would say is a bad idea for many reasons the only other option would be to collect a new octo in order to breed the captives. I think talking with some of the scientist who study and work with bimacs on a regular basis would be the best way to go.

    I think the best way to go would be for a group of us to get together and collect our money to "invest" in the process of doing it legally. I know I would be willing too. Anyone going to Mexico/Gulf of California any time soon lol?
     
  20. Jabba954

    Jabba954 GPO Registered

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    Where are you in CA? Maybe I could buy a tank from you, and the octo is a freebie - that skirts the letter of the law, per my DFG friend.
     

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