S. bandensis baby's Problem

Discussion in 'Cuttlefish Care' started by Nippel, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Hi,

    I've started with 10 babdensis babys I hached in a Breeder hanging in my 26g nanoreef, waterparameters are all as good as SPS need it to grow fast. Nutritions not mesureable with my easy testkits.

    For filtration i've 15kg of liverock. Nothing else, just a aqua medic miniflotor skimmer if its needed.
    Light is a 60W LED DIY fixure.

    So now to the problem:
    last saturday the first cuttle was died, today the second. three of the remaining 8 looks also bad, they are realy dark purple and have bright white eyes. I'd not see them eating for about 2-3 days. One of them tried but after catch a shrimp he let it go imidiatly.

    The diet contains of
    -Mysis
    -freshwater Shrimp (of my own "farming")
    -Saltwater Shrimp

    They just eat realy big shrimps a week ago, two times their own lenght but now they doesn't eat somthing of the half lenght of them.

    I've startet dosing "purple up" and since them they stop eating and become shy and inefficent hunters.

    Have you any idea what is the problem with my cuttles and what could I do to make the cuttles feel better?

    I've taken some Steps now:
    -install the skimmer
    -having carbon in a filter, may there is an infection
    -stop dosing "purple up"

    please excuse my miserable english, hope you understand all I want to say.

    -nippel-
     
  2. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    :welcome: to TONMO

    I hope we can help you out. I'm not a cuttle expert but I see two potential problems.

    first, a tank that size is only large enough to house one cuttlefish.

    second 'purple up' this stuff is great but you have to keep a close eye on your calcium levels or they will go through the roof. When I use it I use half a dose.
     
  3. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Hi Dave,

    you are right, the tank is to small for 8-10 cuttles, but four of mine are for the zoo in Bale (Switzerland), and I'm also plan to enlarge the tank.

    But for some only 4 weeks old cuttles the tank works well.

    but thanks for your answer. Do you think there is something in purple up which is not good for the cuttles? The Calcium level is okay, about 430mg/l or less, depends on how long the last water exchange is gone.

    best regards

    nils
     
  4. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    I would do a water change. Where did you get the salt water shrimp? Is is possible that one of the foods was contaminated with copper?
     
  5. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    i have used it with octopuses and had no problem I have not tried it with cuttles.
     
  6. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    I've got them from a Dealer near my hometown. I had a look there into his tanks with the shrimps, but there was nothing that could contain copper. I will do the water excange tomorrow (its 23:15 now).

    thanks
     
  7. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Two other cuttles died this night. So there are only six left.

    I don't know what is the Problem, they absolutly woulnd't take food I tryed it all day long with very smal shrimps.

    What are the symptoms of a copper poisoning? May anyone have experience with that.

    What I imagine is, that some of my freshwater shrimps are polluted with copper. I've borght them in the internet but I wasn't smart enough to test the water they were delivered in...

    Based on this I've dosed "easy live" (zeolith powder) in the freshwater shrimp tank in hope that it could bind some heavy metals after I've changed about 90% of the water.

    And I've also done a 4,5g water exchange in my reef tank. And there was a little stone with protopalythoa on it. The polyps changed color from green to grey/brown so I was afraid that they also could poisoned the water. I removed that stone to my smal 3g Tank.
    Carbon is alway running to remove poisons in the water.

    Is there somthing else I could do? My some chelates to bind Copper? Or some medicine against bacteria that could cause an infection? I'm very desperatet about my cuttlefish dieing and wish you can help me.

    sorry again for my bad english, but you know, that only depends on my bad teachers in school ;)

    -Nils-
     
  8. rryyddeerr

    rryyddeerr Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    do another water change. thats all i know to tell you. loss of appetite is bad.

    also, how large are your cuttles? and how large are the shrimp youve been giving them? how many at once? are the shrimp kept in their own tank? have you been feeding them?

    ive seen shore shrimp get pretty bold when they are hungry. they do have pincers and ive seen them decimate a population of amphipods and each other when they are hungry. i would imagine it doesnt take much of an injury to kill a baby cuttle.
     
  9. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    the cuttles are about 0,7 inch, hope to calculate that right. (2cm)

    okay I'll do another water change on both tanks (shrimp an cuttles). And the freshwater shrimps should got more food.

    The remaining six cuttles looks a bit better, I saw two or three with a shrimp in their tentacles last night. But one has this kind of white eyes and the deep purple color I saw on the other cuttles which die a few hours/days later.
     
  10. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    I've forgot the half:
    The shrimps are freshwater shrimps and so they are kept in their own tank.
    I feed once a day and one shrimp for every cuttle. The shrimps are smal, like mysid shrimps, not much bigger. If I try it with bigger ones they just swim away and don't even try to catch them.

    I tried to feed them 30 minutes ago. One catched a very smal shrimp, tried to take it in the right position to start feeding (back of the shrimp to cuttles mouth). But the shrimp got of the cuttle and the sepia don't try it again.

    If that shit goes on I think they wouldn't survive the next week...
     
  11. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Can you get some kind of salt water food? Even frozen mysids? If you feed thawed frozen mysids with the eyes still on, you have a chance of getting them to eat it. I think this is either copper or the fresh water food is not good for cuttles so young...
     
  12. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    I've god frozen mysids. but they don't like that stuff.

    I've also testet the water and the freshwater shrimps on copper with my "sera" testkit (better than nothing). I used half of the recommendet water volume and take 4 times more drops as it is said. So I could detect amounts from 0,025mg/l or more cupper. I've testet the water of my tank and I also shred some shrimps, got water to it and filter that stuff to test it.

    If there is copper it must be under a level of 0,025mg/l, I couldn't detect any copper.

    I think there is some bacteria infection.

    There is a stuff thats called "mycosidol" its against cyano bacteria and its recommendet by some german liturature. I think it consist of antibiotics so it should heal the infection of the cuttles if there is one.

    I know that its not good to use medics in your tank but i realy don't know any other way...

    The point is what else could I do against bacteria? Chamomileblossom tea? Don't think that would work. I know its dangerous to use antibiotics, but if the cuttles die I may wish I've tried that...

    I don't beleve that the problem is caused by the freshwater shrimp, I feed them from the beginning and the firt three weeks they eat good and a lot of shrimps (partially two times their own size) and freshwater shrimp have nearly the same amount of nutritions and also the same salinity (like most animals: 0,8%)

    If its not copper it must be
    a mushroom
    a bacteria infectoin
    a virus

    Against mushrooms I give some garlic to the water, against bacteria I'll use antibiotics and if there is a virus I couldn't to anything...

    But what can I do against Copper?
     
  13. rryyddeerr

    rryyddeerr Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    there is a good product called poly filter. pulls out all heavy metals. get one and see...
     
  14. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    I would guess the purple up would irritate them a lot, especially small cuttles. I also think purple up is snake oil. I would stop using it.
     
  15. snowmaker

    snowmaker Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    I second the Poly Filter (by PolyBio Marine) recommendation.
     
  16. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok, read this more carefully. I do think your problem was the purple up (possibly some of the other additives as well). I don't think it is copper, and hobby copper test kits have terrible resolution.

    Purple up is powered aragonite which according to Randy Holmes-Farley will not dissolve in seawater (counter intuitive I know), but will show a false calcium bump. Its like adding finely crushed/powered sand to your tank that can coat and stick to everything - including animals. Its seems also to be a case of 'it happened after, so it was caused by' meaning people claim to get coralline algae after adding purple up, however people who don't add purple up get coralline just as quickly as people who add purple up.

    I would do two 50-90% water changes with either water from another tank (because your tank isn't that huge) or water that has been mixing and heating and aerating for 24 hours. I would also stop adding any additives as I think they are just going to stress compromised animals more (and besides Ca, Mg and Kalk I don't think they really do much good). Add the poly filter if you want to - they don't release anything into the water.

    Good luck!
     
  17. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Hey,

    mhh purple up is possible. I started adding it, because I've lost nearly every of my coraline algee after adding products of coral shop (I was product tester for them and tested the PR Nano Reefset) But I don't add contra phos, I'm not so stupid to add iron to my tank.

    Other additives are only food for corals or bacteria (TM bio actif and coral phyton) but I add it less than it was said. But I don't add anything for two weeks. I've stopped it until I saw the problems with the cuttles.

    The 90% water exchange I'll do at the end of this week, at the moment there is no time... Even if all cuttles will die I think thats a good idea to remove all the shit that could pollute the water.
     
  18. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    There is no problem adding iron to a reef tank - though it seems you are using a lot of additives, so there may be some mixing issues. We add iron to most of our tanks at work - it can help the zooxanthellae do its thing. I don't like zeo/bio actif kinds of additives, and I think you can get the same/similar results without spending the money.

    Are you carbon dosing?

    From your posts, it seems like nothing changed but the purple up, which is another reason I think its the culprit.
     
  19. Nippel

    Nippel O. bimaculoides Registered

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    I've dosed carbon after I noticed the cuttles feel bad.

    Are you realy think its to much additivs? In comparison to many other geman aquarists I think I don't use a lot.

    The CS Nano Reefset was for free and I thourght that stuff can make my tank a bit better.

    I have lot of corals in it, LPS, SPS, Zoas and other softies. Except of a ricordea yuma they all look very beautyfull
     
  20. rryyddeerr

    rryyddeerr Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    seriously, these two are the ones to listen to, intently, if you have a question about cuttle care. :grad:there are many VERY knowledgeable people here on tonmo. all i know :goofysca: is who to listen to. you got a cuttle problem/question that they have delivered an answer/solution to? do it and just say "thanks!!" seriously. not trying to sound like a gerk, but trying to save you some time and help your cuttles. and best of luck with your situation.

    :grin:
     

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