info on distribution of nautilid fossils

Discussion in 'Cephalopod Fossils' started by robyn, Aug 28, 2007.

  1. robyn

    robyn Vampyroteuthis Supporter

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    Hi guys,

    I've been asked to give a general-audience talk on nautilus and I'm trying to find some information on the changing distribution of nautilids over geologic time - I'm envisioning a slide with a world map, animated to show where nautilids have been found and where they lived at different stages of their evolution.

    Does anyone know where I might be able to find some data on this? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Robyn.
     
  2. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    According to the Treatise, [SIZE=-1]Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology, Part K, Mollusca 3, Cephalopoda-General Features-Endoceratoidea-Actinoceratoidea-Nautiloidea-Bactritoidea, Edited by R. C. Moore, Geological Society of America and University of Kansas Press, 1964, The Order Nautilida has representatives from Early Devonian (416mya) thru Recent with world wide distribution. Many Sub-orders became extinct at the end of the Triassic (199.6mya), the Sub-order Nautilina extends from Early Jurassic thru Recent again with world wide distribution. Eutrephoceras (Photo below) and Cenoceras are the two common genera from Early Jurassic to about Oligocene (33.9mya) time. Aturia is a common fossil in Paleocene to Miocene (65.5-7.25mya) rocks. The first Nautilus fossils appear in the Oligocene, and their distribution (of fossils) is; SW pacific, East Indies, Australia and Europe (USSR).
    This is an old book so it may be out of date with the classification and distribution, but it still may help. I just dont know where you will find a map unless you plot all the genera listed in the treatise, which would probably be a major task in itself.
    Hope this helps, and good luck.

    Eutrephoceras sp. from the Coniacian (Late Cretaceous) of Utah
    [/SIZE]
     

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  3. robyn

    robyn Vampyroteuthis Supporter

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    cool - thanks!
     
  4. squider

    squider Larval Mass Registered

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    Hi Robyn,
    Not historical,but i have been squidfishing for the last 23 years on the Africa southcoast and for the first time have been finding these nautilus(alive on jiggs).I was wondering if it is common to find them here.Could you point me to somebody that has knowledge of this please,as i have only seen the shells in our shell meuseems before'
    Kind Regards
    Clem
     

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  5. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    :welcome: to TONMO!

    Robyn or other experts may provide some more details soon, but I can get started by pointing out that this shell is not from an actual nautilus, but from a "paper nautilus" or argonaut, which is actually an exotic type of octopus, and only distantly related to the nautilus family. However, that doesn't make it less interesting if they're showing up in unusual numbers in your area suddenly; in fact, that sounds like the sort of thing Steve O'Shea would be particularly interested in.

    Some discussion of these fascinating animals can be found here:

    http://www.tonmo.com/community/index.php?threads/2166/

    and marinebio_guy kept one for study a year or so ago:

    http://www.tonmo.com/community/index.php?threads/6255/

    I know Tintenfisch was visiting South Africa for ceph research a few months ago, she may have local South Africa ceph researcher contacts who would likely either know more, or be very interested in your information (or both!)
     
  6. squider

    squider Larval Mass Registered

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    Monty
    Thanx for the welcome note.I have been reading all the contacts you gave me,allthough im not in the research or academic side of this subject at all,it seems like i can get hooked easely!:wink:This looks like the Agronauto nodosa as far as my little research shows me:hmm:.If anybody would like info from my side i would be happy to assist.:wink:
     
  7. Argonautautidae

    Argonautautidae Cuttlefish Registered

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    Yes, that is definitely A. nodosa. And a fine specimen too!
     
  8. Tintenfisch

    Tintenfisch Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi there,

    At the South African Museum there were some lovely argonaut shells - I think the collections manager said they were from two different species, in fact. I confess I didn't pay much attention to where they were from, but I assume they were loacl(ish), so they are probably known from South Africa. As for why they are appearing in increasing numbers now... I could guess at a few things (seasonal distribution, change in local water conditions, food migration) but since I really don't know anything about Argonauta biology or ecology, I probably shouldn't.

    So... that was helpful. :oops:

    Steve... ?

    PS - Nesis (1987) includes southern Africa in the distributions of A. nodosa and A. argo.
     
  9. squider

    squider Larval Mass Registered

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    Robyn,sorry to have hijacked your thread!Tintenfisch, thanx for your and all the other friendly member`s response.As i can see from my little info i got sofar, it looks like these creatures have to rely on currents only to move around,so how would they be able to move to, and track food? I suppose there are many questions to be asked! Just a few days ago i saw a couple drifting past our boat,in a group together.So do they use their fleece like a sail of a dingy to navigate and change direction etc. ?Also i wonder how they manage to dive down to get to the bottom and then surface again when they need to,as we have caught them on jiggs on depths of 90 meters before. Nature is truly wonderful !!!!So many questions? it boggles the mind:bonk::bugout:Looks like im hooked,or jigged ?:confused:
     
  10. squider

    squider Larval Mass Registered

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    Hi all again.
    I have just heard from a fellow skipper that he has found the type with the smooth hard shell and with the flap that closes the front part....the plot thickens?? Looks like this could be the Pompillius,anyone know if this is common on the S A coastline?
     
  11. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    According to House's article in Saunders & Landman (eds) Nautilus, it would be very unusual to find a living nautilus (not counting the argonauts) near Africa. The map shows that only two living animals have been reported in that area, both East of Madagascar (specifically, the Seychelles and Mauritius). However, because the shells float in ocean currents, it's not too unusual to find the washed up shells on the African East and South coasts. Do you know if your skipper found a live animal, or just the shell?

    My book is a bit old (1987) but cephbase doesn't seem to have any newer articles about nautilus distribution. Oh, and it did remind me that some references use "chambered nautilus" to describe the actual nautilus, and "paper nautilus" to describe argonauts.

    One the major differences between nautilus and argonauts is that the nautilus shell has chambers permanently filled with gas, which it uses to remain neutrally buoyant in the water. The argonauts, on the other hand, don't have sealed shells, and the shells are primarily for keeping their eggs safe (only female argonauts have shells at all). Although they do use air in the shells to float at the surface, they don't have a complicated system to keep a fixed amount of air in the shell the way nautilus does... in fact, I read somewhere (I think I referenced it in the thread above) that if the air is removed from the shell, the argonaut can replace it somehow, so it's possible that they can deliberately empty the shell to dive down where they get caught on your jiggs.

    I seem to remember that the females build the shells somewhat before they lay their eggs in them, but that the floating lifestyle is primarily after they've layed their eggs... most octopuses stop feeding after egg-laying, so perhaps the ones you see on the surface are carrying eggs, and the ones you catch on your jiggs aren't yet.

    I've read about groups floating on the surface in chains, but I don't know if they ever deliberately use the winds as you suggest... it would certainly be fascinating if they can.

    The TOLweb page http://www.tolweb.org/Argonauta has some interesting pictures, including the only one I've seen of a male argonaut... do you ever see those on your jiggs, or are they too small to catch?
     
  12. Tintenfisch

    Tintenfisch Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    Standing on the shoulders of giants again... here's Nesis (1987) on the genus Nautilus.
     

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  13. squider

    squider Larval Mass Registered

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    Hi all . Sorry for only coming back now , had p c problems and was out at sea. Monty those were indeed nautilus pompillius that the skipper found off our SA southcoast and they where caught live on the jigs, they were thrown away as they started to rot:sad:. I went to our local shell museum in Jeffreys bay and saw some nice nautilus shells and also a shell cut in half showing the chambers very nicely .I will try and post some pics here , quality might not be so good , i only had my cellphone camera with me:hmm:.
    What i meant about the Argonaut nodosa using their fleece to navigate with was not using it with the wind ,but under water in the currents. I would imagine that it could physically be possible and it would be interesting to know whether they plan to go to a specific place and navigate there or just drift senselessly with the currents, so much to learn and so little time:hmm:
     

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  14. squider

    squider Larval Mass Registered

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    Two more:wink:
     

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  15. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Larval Mass Supporter Registered

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    I know this is an old post...but I have only just come across it. I know the area around Jeffreys Bay in South Afrcia very well and I am not aware of ANY nautilus ever having been found there with an animal (alive or dead) in it. So yours is an amazing story. I'd welcome it if by now you may have some more information? By the way, here in the UK we find Jurassic nautiloid fossils 1m across! Regards W
     

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