Changed My Mind!

[DHyslop]

There are different models of it, one may be a HOB. However, after the meagher three years I've been keeping saltwater aquariums I don't think I'd recommend HOB equipment to anyone. Right now I'm even renovating my smaller tank: taking the HOB stuff off and hooking it to a combination wet/dry + sump + refugium.

Dan

 

[Brock Fluharty]

Well, I can't really plumb or drill anything, so I think that HOB is my only option. Why don't you like HOB stuff? Because of the look, or because it works better in a sump or something?

 

[DHyslop]

Take a protein skimmer--There are certain configurations and geometries that are inherently efficient. If you want to take that design and sell it as a HOB component, you need to start compromising the design to get it to fit...maybe make the reaction chamber smaller or have a less efficient way of controlling the water level. Powerfilters are worse, because they're not even that efficient to begin with: the biggest biowheel isn't gonna do nothing compared to a modest amount of bioballs in a wet/dry. These are the reasons that sumps have become so pervasive.

If you don't think you're capable of setting up a sump, then HOB might be the way to go: planning your sump takes a lot of smarts and experience (that is, the first sump you setup will probably have serious problems that you'll need to fix). On the other hand, these are difficult animals to keep--much less breed--and the people that I've noticed who have the best luck are also the people that have the experience and the knowledge with the equipment (take a look at Righty's cuttle love-condos with the doors and windows!).

Dan

 

[Brock Fluharty]

Yeah, I know. I love his idea of doors, and I would like to try to recreate that, if he doesn't mind, that is. It's not really that I don't know a lot about the equipment, I just don't feel comfortable with me building anything that will hold water...I have heard too many stories about sumps that flood, ect. I do have plenty of room under the tank though, but wouldn't I need to drill the tank? It is already filled up with saltwater. I guess I could give a sump a shot, and practice it on a 10 gallon or whatever, but I may need some serious guidance, if you wouldn't mind DHyslop. Thank you so much for walking me through everything. The tank stand has doors on it, which could easily house another tank under the 40 gallon, but the idea of drilling a tank makes me shudder...would it be absolutely necessary to drill, or could I have some airling tubing running over the top of the tank into the sump, and one leading back into it? So confusing...I'll google it!

Thanks again!
Brock Fluharty

 

[DHyslop]

I'm afraid I'm not in a good position to walk anyone through anything right now with my thesis proposal due. I will say an alternative to drilling would be a siphon-overflow (A good siphon overflow, stay away from the SOS or the CPR).

There have been entire volumes of work written by hobbyists about how to set up sumps. Use Google, and also Reefcentral. Remember you can search RC by specifying the site name in Google.

Patience is the most important ingredient. I sat on an empty tank for nearly 6 months reading about sumps on the internet before I even tried my first one. And it was so lousy I only had it set up for about three months. After that I read for another 6 months before trying again.

A good piece of advice is not to build anything if you don't yet understand exactly how it works. A well designed overflow system, for example, usually has a few fail-safes built in. If you build one without understanding them, you're bound for a flood. Again, the moral of the story is have the patience to research everything completely.

Dan

 

[Castor]

Don't know if anyone has seen this, but the more information you have at your disposal, the better.

Felix.

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

 

[DHyslop]

Melev has some great stuff, but there are some things he does that I just don't trust (ie, running 120V AC through a single float valve for his auto-topoff - yikes!). Its an incredibly informative site he's built, though!

Dan

 

[Brock Fluharty]

Ok, DHyslop. I think I have a better understanding of how it works now, and my stepdad worked in plumbing for 10 years, so I think we can do this at the right time, like in 3 months...lol. Yes, I just read that article Felix, and it was very informative. I am going to have to go with the siphon overflow, because I don't want to break down the tank and drill it. I will probably use a 20 gallon sump, with an added refugium. Does a siphon overflow still skim the surface? It doesn't sound like it does, and that was a real positive to me...

 

[Castor]

I only looked at the sump, actually just did a search. Wanted to gather information on plumbing 2 sumps to one tank. It works great, we put the chaeto in one, and some ugly base rock in the other, with a 24 hour photo cycle. Seems to be working out great, thanks a million, Dan!

 

[Brock Fluharty]

Ok, well I just did that calculator on RC on how many gallons the sump will require in case of a power outage. It says 5.4 gallons, but I am going to go with either a 20 gallon sterilite tub, or a 10 gallon tub. I already have both, but the 10 gallon one is more than 10 gallons. I think I could fit at least 20 in there, ut they don't measure it at the top. It has lots of room. Now, a sump sounds extremely exciting, and easier. Also, I can use the refugium as a place to keep some baby cuttles, or eggs. Aquatropics does have sepia bandensis eggs right now. They are $5.00 per egg, and you can pick between UPS or FedEx shipping. One is only like $26.00. I am going to get about 5 from them once my tank has matured greatly. If this batch does not survive, I will wait another 6 months or so before anything is added, to mature it beyond belief, lol.

Brock

 

[DHyslop]

Brock--

One thing you might consider is setting up some HOB equipment while you study up on sumps; if you're in a hurry and money isn't as important. Siphon overflows still do skim--check out products on the internet: a picture is worth a thousand words. Take reefcentral seriously, too. I promise any question you can conceive of has already been asked and answered there.

Felix--

Good to hear the Chaeto's working out. Did they slap a biohazard sticker on yours?

Dan

 

[Illithid]

Dan is right-I have remade my sump system 3 times so far-and I have done this before. I have had it sitting with no water for 2 months now, planning the flow rates, fail safes, and baffles to be sure everything will work how I want it.

If you have room for 2 sumps and can figure your system out -I would recommend it. One can be excess overflow and for mixing water changes. I am using this in my system, but I actually have 3 sumps combined with bulkheads and ball valves.

I think I have it down now, but will do the final build and cement the PVC this weekend; so everyone wish me luck.

 

[DHyslop]

Good luck Illithid. I think we must admit that we're the kind for whom the planning and the building is half the fun!

Dan

 

[Brock Fluharty]

I don't think I have enough room for 2 sumps. I already have some HOB equipment set up on the tank. I have a heater, filter, and I will go ahead and get the skimmer probably. Do you think I should set up the sump before or after getting the eggs? I think after, but i'm not sure how much stress that would put them under...

 

[DHyslop]

You can do a transition without upsetting the system too much. If you turned on flow through the wet/dry and took off the powerfilter the same day you'd have trouble, but if you ran them together for a month or so to let the bacteria colonize it would be just fine.

Dan