[BREAKING NEWS]: Colossal Squid

Taningia,

First Kat gets a marriage proposal, and now I've been embraced by a strobing teuthid. What next?

Growing up in Providence likely pre-disposed me to appreciate Lovecraft's work.

"The Sea Raiders" didn't plot to take over the world, but they did eat some people.

This might be a topic better suited to Kat's Pop-culture forum, but it is true that artists occasionally anticipate science before it becomes science. Benchley's breaching, aerial-gaping Great White comes to mind. Many informed people scoffed at the notion of a white shark getting airborne and sticking its head out of the water, behaviors now familiar to anyone who watches "Shark Week."

"Archie-toothless" still doesn't have any talons, however.

Clem :shock:
 
I felt sad when I read the story.
They should not have killed the squid by gaffing at it and dragging it on board, indiscriminately killing the animal. Now that its dead, cut it open and study it. Fine I have no problem with that. I just wish it wasn't dead.

Also, why must we keep demonizing the poor animal by calling it a "monster". Its just an animal, no more of a monster than a shark or you and I.

I would like to know, if this squid was still alive, would it be possible to still somehow study it in its natural environment ? Is it possible to do what they did with Keiko the killer whale, tracking its movement, etc.

Thanks.
 
Dear squidhavefeelings2, and anyone else who feels the same (including myself).

Immediately following any press release of this nature I am bombarded with mail, most positive, a few quite vitriolic. I will post some of these messages separately (new thread; removing traces of person's identities) and discuss them; it is important that these concerns are addressed (more so than responding to people who say congratulations on the new find), because I have the same point of view.

Unfortunately it is impossible to attend to this today, but I'll try and do so tomorrow. Squidhavefeelings2, most of the work I do is geared towards conservation of the marine environment and its species - not collection of squid specimens, self promotion or the sensationalisation of specimen finds (like this present 'colossal squid'). However, we do need to know what is down there in order to protect it - otherwise we are operating blind. Protective measures proposed in ignorance (of full biological information) could prove to be inadequate to preserve or conserve either representative or sensational environments/species - thus offering no protection to the species and its environment. When our knowledge is in its infancy, as it is with this beast and the environment within which it lives, we must make a compromise between specimen/information collection and conservation/preservation. First we need to gather information (through acquisition of specimens [usually dead commercial fisheries bycatch that would otherwise be discarded], which we then follow by (in the ideal world) identification of appropriate 'no go/leave alone' marine protected areas (MPAs - otherwise known as reserves)).

I will respond in more detail soon.
Kindest
Steve
 
squidhavefeelings2 said:
I felt sad when I read the story.
They should not have killed the squid by gaffing at it and dragging it on board, indiscriminately killing the animal. Now that its dead, cut it open and study it. Fine I have no problem with that. I just wish it wasn't dead.

Also, why must we keep demonizing the poor animal by calling it a "monster". Its just an animal, no more of a monster than a shark or you and I.

I would like to know, if this squid was still alive, would it be possible to still somehow study it in its natural environment ? Is it possible to do what they did with Keiko the killer whale, tracking its movement, etc.

Thanks.

Hiya SHF2 --

I can understand your concern regarding this, and perhaps it would be better for one of our resident teuthologists, like Steve-O', Kat, Richard Ellis, or James Wood to field these questions. (Yo, guys, where are you now that we need you?) But I will offer my :twocents: as a laysquid anyway.

Unfortunately, the first reaction of humans to Big Squids for the past few millennia has been fear. There are so many cases of Archis in their death throes at the surface, being harpooned and otherwise tormented by people in boats, and then when the poor creature tried to defend itself by lashing out with its arms, being slaughtered as a "dangerous monster." To paraphrase a line from THE ELEPHANT MAN, who are the real "monsters" in those scenarios?

So if the animal in question was an Archi, the fishermen would have been totally unjustified in their actions. Letting it go, and reporting the incident to the local marine research lab, would have been a saner and more humane reaction.

That being said, we are not talking about an Archi here. From what I have read about recent studies, Messie is an aggressive, powerful creature with sharp hooks on its arms, which it has no compunctions about using if threatened -- or hungry. I don't know the exact circumstances of its capture, but if I saw something huge in my net flailing an array of big scimitars in my direction, my first reaction would have been to kill it too, before I or my companions ended up on the business end of those weapons. It isn't as though the fishermen were out to net a humongous ceph, they were apparently just catching fish for a livelihood and found themselves face-to-face with a very vicious and scary-looking surprise (more so than an Archi would have been).

Had it been a research vessel on the lookout for a Colossal Squid, the crew would have (hopefully) been prepared for the danger of being skewered alive, and would have worked out a way of capturing a CS with a minimum amount of danger to either the Squid or themselves.

Regarding Keiko the Killer Whale -- we're talking "apples and oranges" here. Orcas ("urban legends" to the contrary notwithstanding) have never once been known to attack humans, except in clear cases of self-defense. In fact, like many other cetaceans, Orcas seem to sense when a biped approaching them has benevolent intentions, and they respond in a similarly benevolent manner. The same remarkable intelligence (perhaps close to that of primates!) that makes them Angels of Death to pinnipeds and great whales, enables them to relate empathetically to our own species.

Similarly, Archis -- though not exactly the Brightest Crayons in the Pack (if I'm not mistaken, Steve-O' says their brains weigh about 3 grams) -- are apparently placid animals, and perhaps it would be within the realm of possibility to tag them without risk to their delicate physiology. Messies are another story entirely. According to Steve-O', they are likely to slash or bite first, and ask questions later. IMHO it wouldn't be easy to get close enough to a Messie to tag it, and I doubt that its molluscan body chemistry would survive "darting" with anesthetics as one would do with a land mammal like a big cat or primate (Steve-O' or Kat, please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this stuff.)

I am moved by your compassion for living things, regardless of how alien their appearance. It's just that I don't think the fishermen would have been able to keep a pissed-off Mesonychoteuthis alive either on or next to their boat, without incurring serious injury to the creature and/or themselves.

I trust that the TONMO teuthologist contingent can pick up the subject from here!

Blessings -- and stay as kindhearted as you are!

Your bioluminescent benthic buddy,
The Tanster
 
TaningiaDanae said:
Similarly, Archis -- though not exactly the Brightest Crayons in the Pack (if I'm not mistaken, Steve-O' says their brains weigh about 3 grams) --

LOL

Actually the brain is about 20g, but most of that (I'd guess about 3/4) is made up of the two optic lobes controlling Archi's extraordinary eyes.
 
Clem said:
Taningia,

First Kat gets a marriage proposal, and now I've been embraced by a strobing teuthid. What next?

Ummm, lessee.... maybe Kat gets a marriage proposal from a strobing teuthid?

Clem said:
Growing up in Providence likely pre-disposed me to appreciate Lovecraft's work.

Ah, Providence! Several years ago my husband and I visited there as part of a trip through New England. That leg of the trip was an HPL pilgrimage -- we went to the Swans Point Cemetery to pay our respects at the new (back then) grave marker with the inscription "I Am Providence"; following that, we went to Angell Street to take a photo of the Ancestral Homestead; and we wound up the day with a spaghetti-and-meatballs dinner at a restaurant in the Federal Hill district.

It is a truly beautiful city -- I only wish we'd had more time to spend there.

Clem said:
"The Sea Raiders" didn't plot to take over the world, but they did eat some people.

D'oh! It was so long ago that all I remembered was the diabolically intelligent Octos.

Are you familiar with the works of HPL's close friend Frank Belknap Long? He was a fine horror and sci-fi writer who also wrote a memoir called H.P. LOVECRAFT: DREAMER ON THE NIGHTSIDE. My husband and I had the privilege of knowing Frank in his later years, when he and his rather weird wife Lyda occupied a shabby apartment in the Chelsea area of Manhattan.

Anyway, in FBL's fine anthology RIM OF THE UNKNOWN, he wrote a very ceph-y story called "The Man With A Thousand Legs," which is both poignant and disturbing. Very worthwhile, as are most of his other stories. Frank was a very sweet and very talented gentleman, who like his friend HPL unfortunately spent the final years of his life in poverty.

Clem said:
This might be a topic better suited to Kat's Pop-culture forum, but it is true that artists occasionally anticipate science before it becomes science. Benchley's breaching, aerial-gaping Great White comes to mind. Many informed people scoffed at the notion of a white shark getting airborne and sticking its head out of the water, behaviors now familiar to anyone who watches "Shark Week."

As I noted in an earlier post, this late-breaking news might vindicate Peter Benchley's sensational description of the "squid from hell" in BEAST. He just has to make sure that in future editions of the novel Colossal Squid is substituted for Giant Squid, and Mesonychoteuthis for Architeuthis.

Clem said:
"Archie-toothless" still doesn't have any talons, however.

"Archie-toothless" -- love it! :smile:

Taningia, Dark Goddess of the Brooding Reef
 
I think Peter Benchley has some kind of side deal going with Poseidon (or some other seagoing deity). He always seems to get the inside scoop on deep sea beasties before the rest of the world does. Let's hope Stephen Sommers (who wrote and directed "Deep Rising") doesn't have the same deal! :shock:

Yes, I loved that movie!
 
Bald Evil said:
I think Peter Benchley has some kind of side deal going with Poseidon

i still think jules verne had some impressive visions that he's gonna pay for, or he's had some built up "spiritual currency".....either way the view from the sidelines aint bad..... :smile:
 
Hello Everyone!

SHF2: I know what you mean about alien animals and compassion for life.

My favorite place in the universe is the Monterey Bay Aquarium. (My second favorite is the Trapezium - Four newly formed stars in the Orion Nebula... but anyway...). One day a woman asked me why I so enjoyed a place where animals were held "prisoner" (i.e. in captivity). I pondered this for a moment, and replied that as human beings, we only truly react to what we can really experience for ourselves through our senses.

My response:

Face it; television isn't REAL... As much as so-called "reality TV" is a mockery of real-life, people know that its not "real", and therefore won't react as strongly as something they can really see with their own eyes, or touch with their own hands. We want the "real". Places like wild animal parks and aquaria bring life to us, and while it may seem like a sacrifice on the part of the animals in question, it makes us truly aware of their existence.

Nevertheless, cruelty should be out of the question... always...

What I'm trying to say is stick by your guns. Its good to embrace new life instead of demonizing it. Keep the faith! 8)

Peace on the homeworld,

John
 
Bald Evil said:
He started spinning when they named that dinosaur after Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.
HA! I remember that... too funny. Because they were listening to Dire Straits while doing their digs...
 
Dr. O'Shea, et al.

I am still checking here from time to time hoping to see more of Dr. O'Shea's views on this Colossal Squid. I was glad to see his initial answer to my earlier post saying "most of the work he does is geared towards conservation of the marine environment and its species - not collection of squid specimens, self promotion or the sensationalisation of specimen finds (like this present 'colossal squid')".

I also have more questions and comments but first a disclaimer that I'm a novice when it comes to squid and marine animals, i.e. I don't know what an Archis or a Messie is.

Given this hugh Colossal Squid is rare (or rarely found/seen), should it be protected ? Should it and could it be listed as an endangered specie to be protected ?. I believe Dr Rod Hay (New Zealand) is CITES Regional Representative for Oceania.
Is he active on any of the Forum here ?

thanks and cheers.
 

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