Wunderpus poll

Discussion in 'Octopodidae' started by mucktopus, Sep 25, 2005.

  1. mucktopus

    mucktopus Haliphron Atlanticus Staff Member Moderator

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    Given all the wunderpus and mimics that have shown up for sale this year, and how many of us seem to agree that they shouldn't be sold, I'm curious how people go about discussing the issue with their suppliers. Who has called a supplier and asked them not to sell these animals? What has their reaction been?

    Just curious...
     
  2. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    I sent an email to Dr Foster and Smith, as did several people here. Either they sold the one(s) they had in stock, or they caved.

    You back in town? :D
     
  3. Colin

    Colin Colossal Squid Supporter

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    I Think that the trade gets around all the eyebrow raising to begin with by calling them 'zebra octopus'. It seems to be that once they are in the UK or USA that someone starts calling them by their right names again.

    The huge price hike also seems to happen once they get here as to import a Mimic direct would only cost me about $20 per unit, yet we see them here at normally a couple hundred $$$

    The importers I have spoken to have had different results. One asked me for advice and since I spoke to them have stopped all importation of Blue Rings and Mimics/Wunderpus. Well done to Tom Halvorsen Ltd! website here

    However, the UK's largest marine importer still brings them in and still misidentifies them.

    The pet industry, in the UK at least, is going through a huge shakeup, it has many herp keepers and fish keepers really worried about what can and cannot get imported in the future. I have voiced my opinions to them regarding some cephalopods...

    FOCAS petition

    DEFRA on keeping CITES animals

    Here is a recent one by the Scottish Executive regarding importing species which could harm the environment here weirdly enough snakeheads (Channa) are on this list??? Cant see them being able to live in a Scottish summer let alone a winter but never mind, point is that there are consultations and it is up to people like us to voice our concerns
     
  4. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    I've yapped at every supplier out here, and on the west coast. Unfortunately, I am labeled as something of a "earth-first-er", and so I can never tell if they are actually going to stop selling these things or not, after all, I am the one that gave a lecture on bottom trawling in a trendy scottsdale seafood restaurant at full volume.
    Lots of glares, but two people cancelled their orders for Orange Roughy.

    greg
     
  5. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    I'm the one who voted no :shock:! This is because none of the pet shops/aquarium suppliers down here in Dunedin NZ sell ANY variety of cephalopod, never mind wunderpus or mimics..............if they did you can be sure that they'd hear from me!!!! As one did who were selling Pot Bellied Seahorses Hippocampus abdominalis in piddly wee tanks (~20L) :mad:

    J
     
  6. Tintenfisch

    Tintenfisch Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    I have contacted several online sellers. Some are willing to listen; others (e.g. the guy selling the 'zebra-banded octopus' on Ebay recently) tout their 'extensive experience in the aquarium supply industry' and even if they 'have never seen an animal like this before,' they don't want to know about the potential risks and ecological damage of trading in them - only the $500 they think they can get for it. You'd think some information on a species that is new to them (not to mention to science!) would be of interest, but instead you get told in no uncertain terms where you can take your concerns... :mad:
     
  7. William Tyson

    William Tyson Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    personaly i have never seen anything more then a bimac at any of the stores that i know of, including online suppliers, with the acception of octopets as they have cuttles, and of corse our ebay bandit, but i would not be against an agricutlral permit being required for the sale/ purchase of these creatures
     
  8. Graeme

    Graeme Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    This is going to sound really ignorant or naiive, but what makes it a bad thing to sell them? Are they endangered? That I'd understand, but over here I've never once seen a shop that sells octopuses. I couldn't bring myself to have a pet octopus anyway, for 2 reasons: first is that they have such a short lifespan and knowing me I'd get too attached, and second is that I personall think it's a wee bitty cruel to enclose such an intellegent animal, unless it was a massive aquarium, but then that's just me. I was brought up in a household that always had Cichlids though. Please don't flame me, I'm just not knowledgeable about ceph-keeping, is all.

    Graeme
     
  9. Toren

    Toren Vampyroteuthis Supporter

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    Not just you - me too! The only pet I would ever have would be a truly domesticated one, like a cat or a dog. And even so I feel guilty for having an apartment-confined cat. I think it's okay to have octopuses and other critters in zoos because they're for educational purposes and for the greater good of their cousins in the wild, but I personally would never keep a wild animal. But maybe I'm wrong, and they prefer the cushy lifestyle and natural death to being chased by predators even though they're cooped up.
     
  10. Euprymna

    Euprymna O. vulgaris Registered

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    It's because they are so rare and plus they are endemic to Indonesia (I think...) which makes their populatin much more vulnerable.

    Eups
     
  11. Graeme

    Graeme Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Ah! Well if that's the case,my opinion is; it is cruel for petshops to stock them.

    Graeme
     
  12. mucktopus

    mucktopus Haliphron Atlanticus Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm with you- but must admit it's handy to be in Neogonodactylus's lab. If we have to keep an animal to watch it for a little while then it'll be very well-taken care of. Maybe one day when I live somewhere for more than five months in a row I'll get a bowl of guppies.

    Mimic and wunderpus probably have decent distributions, but they live in habitat that is heavily trawled in some places, and sometimes "reclaimed" to make land. Although we have not been able to conduct formal surveys yet, these octos are considered rare. When solitary animals are rare, and might not get many chances to mate in life, over-collection can be a big deal. Based on views of long-time divers in muck sites, paoching of rare animals for the aquarium trade (of mimics, wunderpus, frogfish, etc) has become a big, unchecked problem. Rich muck habitats don't have the charismatic draw that coral reefs have, so they get ignored by conservation groups that admittedly already have a lot on their plate as it is. Wunderpus and mimics have different ways of dispersing hatchlings, so wunderpus would probably have a harder time bouncing back after over-collection. Anyway- I'll keep ya posted as we learn more.
     
  13. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    It seems that you can rationalize anything you want, to suit your purposes...hey, it works for the government, right?
    They are unknown animals, for the most part, and studies in the wild are needed prior to keeping them in captivity.

    greg
     
  14. Tintenfisch

    Tintenfisch Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    ... Although there was a drool-inducing poster at CIAC about their reproduction - Volker Miske and some others at an aquarium in Germany saw one for sale and realized they could give it as good a life as anyone else. It turned out to be a female that laid eggs - fertile eggs!! Paper to be published soon. Watch for fantastic photos! :cool:
     
  15. joreed3

    joreed3 Cuttlefish Registered

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    Mimic/wunderpuss.. What an AMAZING ANIMAL! It would be rather interesting to have one.. but I guess I have been living under a rock I did not know they were endangered. :(
     
  16. joreed3

    joreed3 Cuttlefish Registered

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    I agree with you. I would not want a "wild" animal. If I were to ever get an octi I would like it to be born in captivity. I would NEVER in a million years take an animal out of its natural habitat and keep it as a pet and Im sorry if someone gets mad at me for saying this but I really urge people from this forum to refrain from buying wild octi too. I think there is plenty of suppliers now to get an octi that has been bred and born in captivity. Also bigger the tank the better!! thats why its gonna be a long.. time till I get an octi. I want a big tank, I feel bad for any creature in a small cage.. Thats why I got 3 ferrets running around my room constantly.. i cant bare to put them back in their cage!
     
  17. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

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    Actually, you'd be surprised. The only place breeding octopus for the public may have gone out of business, leaving mother nature as our only source for octopus. The places you're thinking of that sell cb octos are just distributors that don't do any actual breeding themselves.

    I strongly agree with what you say in principle, however it must be understood that regardless of where our octos come from, our hobby is inherently destructive to some extent. Check out the thread about the live rock for further discussion down that road!

    Dan
     
  18. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    Yeah, it sounds like octopets is under. Too bad, but, I hope that some of us can maybe farm some cephs. I wish we had more space!
     
  19. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

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    I just happened to mention this to someone at my LFS this week and they told me that they can get in touch with a diver in the San Diego area if I want to go after eggs. I might photocopy some references at the library this afternoon and read up on bimac reproduction over the weekend.

    I know I don't have the resources to breed them (or keep more than one adult), but as long as I've got places willing to take the young I think it would be a good start.

    Dan
     
  20. joreed3

    joreed3 Cuttlefish Registered

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    I think we have enough resources right here in this forum. If people combine forces on breeding or finding "un-wild" octi. We can preserve the creature that we all love so much. My personal goal one day is to breed octi and cuttle and sell them at a very reasonable price to fellow octi-enthusiast. It will be my little contribution to a creature that has captivated me since I was a little child. I would like my grand-children's grand-children's children to also have the oppurtunity to share the earth with such a mystical creature :)
     

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