Wonderpus - LFS giveaway

[Nancy]

Sorry that he passed away. There is so much we don't know and it's frustrating not to know the cause of death.
But you did your best, so don't feel like you killed the unicorn.

Nancy

 

[Level_Head]

Ah, sad news. Considering the delicate nature of these creatures, it is amazing to do as well as you do with them, and it is a mark of progress, perhaps, that we feel that "something went wrong" when even such an exotic does not survive.

Our expectations set a high bar. I wish you success in your next ventures.

 

[DWhatley]

AM,


Needless to say perhaps, but reiterating to your LSF your prior successful experiences, the quality of the guidance on this specific species and the sad result should go a long way toward reinforcing his commitment to not order more.

 

[skywindsurfer]

I agree with D. Something that is this delicate should be left alone if it can't be kept safely.

 

[Thales]

I agree with D. Something that is this delicate should be left alone if it can't be kept safely.

Without experienced people giving some animals a go, we'll never understand what they need. I'm not saying they should be collected willy nilly, but unless some try, we'll never learn. I am not saying that these animals should be collected willy nilly, but some reasonable collection seems well, reasonable. This has been a debate in marine ornamentals for a long time, and we see dedicated people succeed with animals that have long been thought 'better left in the ocean'. Acropora, orange spot filefish and S. bandensis are great examples - all were considered impossible to keep, but acros are now as easy as breeding guppies, OSFF are being kept and spawned all on prepared foods, and no on thinks twice anymore about keeping bandensis.

And, sometimes Wunderpus are easy to keep, and sometimes they aren't. It's weird and it would be great if we figured it out.

I think was D was referring to was the store not ordering more, not that experienced people shouldn't try when serindipity presents itself.

 

[sulley]

sorry to hear this

 

[rryyddeerr]

in regards to this subject matter, i am completely ignorant. but it seems to me that the environment these guys thrive in is kinda harsh. something extremely delicate would probably perish, no? i may be thinking about this in completely the wrong way, but if given the correct *environment* these guys should be somewhat hardy. (obviously, i am not the slightest bit interested in attempting to keep one, FYI) I am delighted to sit back and observe the attempts of those who *know* what they are doing.

 

[DWhatley]

I think was D was referring to was the store not ordering more, not that experienced people shouldn't try when serindipity presents itself.

Thales,
What I LOVE seeing is what you are doing at the academy. It is kind of an experienced hobbies/public aquarium combination that should be happening more with the issues we are seeing in the ocean. I wish it was more than serendipity and that the wholesalers (and I know you have a relationship there) would contact individuals and places like the academy when unusual animals are collected in stead of them going to an LSF. You made a statement recently about the affordability of captive breeding and needing major facilities to participate to bring the prices in-line with WC and I whole heartedly agree. If the aquariums would work with these facilities there would be an automatic market for start up along with a potential to share some of the learning expense (and even a hope of some employment for the avid hobbiest). With the loss of the NRCC for cephs, may this will evolve.

 

[Animal Mother]

in regards to this subject matter, i am completely ignorant. but it seems to me that the environment these guys thrive in is kinda harsh. something extremely delicate would probably perish, no? i may be thinking about this in completely the wrong way, but if given the correct *environment* these guys should be somewhat hardy. (obviously, i am not the slightest bit interested in attempting to keep one, FYI) I am delighted to sit back and observe the attempts of those who *know* what they are doing.

I wish I had known in advance this opportunity was going to present itself to me and I would have arranged my tank accordingly. I didn't provide it with the environment it was accustomed to, and perhaps that could have played a role in its demise. Their natural environment is surely a harsh one, but I think a big part of the debate over keeping them is that in their rarity, they possibly may not even be thriving in their own environment.

Rich, I thought of you when it happened and I wanted to send it but I didn't know what to do with it at the time. Very ill prepared and just really disgusted. Since I no longer work for a veterinarian I don't have access to formalyn, which is ultimately what I would have wanted to do so we could at least enjoy looking at him. His "face" made me chuckle a lot.

 

[ieatfalalfel]

you could get the flower arranging liquid that hardens clear. ( idk of name ). I used to keep a praying mantis an preserved it with thismethod.

 

[rryyddeerr]

it would contain it, but the octo would still rot, chemically within the void. he needs something that leeches into the tissue of the animal and stops/slows the decomposition process.

 

[Thales]

Did you freeze it? Alcohol can work too.

 

[skywindsurfer]

Sorry Thales, allow me to clarify my previous statement. I ment what you said about they shouldn't be collected for aquarium trade, but I support scientific research when it is preformed by the right people so that we may better understand rare and/or delicate animals such as these. I know that hobbists can and have made break throughs with various species of the years that may not have happened in a lab for Gods know why, but I still think these animals should be left to the pros. No affense to anyone on TONMO that has had them before. I'd rather they be in your(TONMO community) hands than an average joe smo.

 

[Thales]

Sorry Thales, allow me to clarify my previous statement. I ment what you said about they shouldn't be collected for aquarium trade, but I support scientific research when it is preformed by the right people so that we may better understand rare and/or delicate animals such as these. I know that hobbists can and have made break throughs with various species of the years that may not have happened in a lab for Gods know why, but I still think these animals should be left to the pros. No affense to anyone on TONMO that has had them before. I'd rather they be in your(TONMO community) hands than an average joe smo.

I am not sure that I said they shouldn't be collected for the aquarium trade - I think they should be collected reasonably for the aquarium trade which would benefit both the hobbyist and the researchers by giving them access to the animals. I am all for any dedicated individual getting a chance at figuring out these animals. Having been on both the hobby and the 'pro' side of this kind of issue, I see real benefit to both.

 

[Neogonodactylus]

There are several issues here that have not been separated. Do I support research on Wunderpus? Yes. We have a lot to learn about these animals as Crissy Huffard et al.'s upcoming paper demonstrates. However, I think these efforts should be focused first on populations in the field. The sad fact is that we have very little understanding of the population biology of this species. We know more about its behavior from the legions of underwater photographers than we do about its reproductive biology, abundance or rarity, and population dynamics. Until we have more information about these parameters, I for one am not willing to recommend harvesting individuals to support the commercial exploitation of this animal.

A second issue centers on how delicate this animal is or is not. I agree with Thales that is a puzzle. I've had Wunderpus that lasted for months in standard aquaria, but I've had more that wasted away in days. This probably has to do with capture techniques, handling and shipment and treatment once they reach their destination. I've been told that the mortality figures for this species from capture to wholesaler are really bad, but such numbers are very difficult to get. Whether better practices would improve this, I have no idea.

The examples that Thales gives of "successes" in keeping and culturing exotic species are indeed encouraging. The only caveat I would give is that Wunderpus is a small egged species and we all know how difficult it is to culture octopus of this ilk. Add to this low fecundity and very little understanding dispersal and recruitment, and this is a very big question mark. Personally, I doubt that I will ever see Wunderpus in culture - but then I pretty old and hope I'm wrong

Roy