West Palm Beach Carcass

Discussion in 'ID Requests' started by chipster, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. chipster

    chipster Larval Mass Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    A diver in West Palm Beach took this photo of what appears to be a squid carcass on August 30, 2004. The remoras are between 60 and 90 cm long. Anyone? I am searching for more info...
     

    Attached Files:

  2. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    11
    call me a cynic, but I think it looks like some kind of artificial thing, like perhaps a boat bumper. The line down the side looks more like a manufacturing mark than a place where a fin was ripped off or something. But I'm really just going on my gut impression.
     
  3. chipster

    chipster Larval Mass Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    The source stated "organic" the nature of the thing, I am trying to locate other photos to refute or confirm this. I am not knowingly trying to dupe anyone! Thanks for the help.
     
  4. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    11
    I didn't mean in any way to suggest you were trying to dupe anyone, just that it looks weird and man-made to me for some reason. After I posted, I was thinking that it seemed odd that it seems very rigid, and that the mantle appears to be hollow, without any internal organs or viscera... something about the way it's fuzzy and fraying at the edges doesn't seem like molluscan muscle, either; it seems a lot more fiberous than I'd expect.
     
  5. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    somewhere under the desert sky
    Looks like a squid to me :hmm:

    The line is either ventral or dorsal, and the tentacle bases are on the left. Hard to see where a gladius would fit though. :hmm:
     
  6. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    11
    Chipster emailed me some much higher resolution images, and some of the things that looked off to me disappeared when looking closely, so I think I was too cynical. I had been thinking the lines were lateral rather than dorsal/ventral, but I guess I don't have any reason for that except that I thought they might have been the attachment points for one of those squids with big triangular fins that run the whole length of the mantle. Why do you think they're dorsal or ventral? Also, note that there is a line on the inside of the mantle opposite the one visible on the outside...

    Can you post the other pics, Chipster, or may I? There are some interesting gouges shown in one of the pictures, where it looks like the photographer rolled it away from the camera in one of them...
     
  7. main_board

    main_board Vampyroteuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    7
    Well the mantle is probably hollow as the internal organs are much softer and more fragile than the muscular mantle. That'd make the organs the first to break down, the easiest to consume, and possibly quite tasty to some small fish that could just waltz right in the big gapping hole at the top of the animal and feast. Though it may not be a squid, I would definitely think that it'd be organic at least fiven the presence of the remoras, including one suctioned on and possibly feeding.

    I look forward to seeing more pictures, if possible.
    Cheers!
     
  8. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    11
    Yeah, that makes sense. I also mentioned in the email but forgot in the post that the mantle may look more rigid than it is because in water it's close to (or exactly, if it's ammoniacal) neutral buoyancy, so it doesn't sag under its own weight at all. So most of the things that seemed non-ceph initially disappeared under closer inspection.
     
  9. sorseress

    sorseress Colossal Squid Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,026
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey Monty, you're a cynic!:tongue:
     
  10. Tintenfisch

    Tintenfisch Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    171
    Wow, cool shot!

    The horizontal line looks like the dorsal median line to me, with the gladius kind-of-but-not-quite visible underneath. The rigid appearance is a little weird, but the rest of the features look very squiddy to me.
     
  11. erich orser

    erich orser Architeuthis Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Looks like a squid from here as well.
     
  12. chipster

    chipster Larval Mass Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Palm Beach Carcass?

    I have the additional photos monty mentioned. but trouble uploading now, I can email them if anyone else is interested, Monty can pass them on as well. If anyone could comment on potential species or familiy, I'd love to hear... Thanks
     
  13. Clem

    Clem Architeuthis Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    49
    Hello Chipster,

    Great mystery you have, here. It does look like a squid, for the reasons Architeuthoceras mentioned (structures that look like arm stumps and dorso-ventral lines) but also for the slight indentation visible in the tube, as if it were pinched just above the "head." This indent gives some squid mantles a distinctive Coke-bottle profile.

    As for a species ID (if it's a squid), I don't think that's possible without a lot more photos that show characteristic features in detail, such as the funnel or mantle attachment points.

    Still, great fun mystery and please post more photos.

    Also:

    :welcome:

    Those resting remoras look like they've oriented themselves in the direction of the current. Current pushing into the tube might puff it out some, yes?:hmm:

    Cheers,
    Clem
     
  14. Tintenfisch

    Tintenfisch Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    171
    Hmm, could be... though I would expect it to puff the tube out in this way if it were coming from the direction of the arms, entering the mantle at its anterior margin; coming from the other direction I would expect it rather to flatten the pointy end?
    Maybe the remoras are smiling for the camera... :wink:
     
  15. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    somewhere under the desert sky
    Could it be that only remains washed ashore turn into globsters and those still in the sea keep their shape a little longer?

    hmmm... didnt catch anything for calling them tentacle bases instead of arm bases. :razz:
     
  16. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    16
    Very good point.
     
  17. chipster

    chipster Larval Mass Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Photos

    I am trying to repost some photos, I managed to get one more attached. File size still a prob...
     

    Attached Files:

  18. chipster

    chipster Larval Mass Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    More carcass photos

    Well, Here is one more, unfortunately they are from similar perspective.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. chipster

    chipster Larval Mass Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Last 2 photos

    Ok, that's all I have. Hope they help. I think one had the brightness adjusted, so the color is off a bit, OOPS! (no other photoshop was conducted--for you cynics!)
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Clem

    Clem Architeuthis Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    49
    :shock:

    Great shots, Chipster; thanks for posting them despite the uploading difficulties.

    Interesting wound patterns on that squid. What might have caused that cluster of parallel, shallow wounds? Almost looks like a propeller strike.

    Cheers,
    Clem
     

Share This Page