Temperature for Octopus

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by Seamay, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. Seamay

    Seamay Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Hello, I just got my new buddy (hopefully he/she will think we`re buddies soon) almost 2 days ago. I wasnt expecting a Pacific Octo so I had my tank temp set at tropical temps...~78 degrees. The LFS, who are normally very reliable said he will be ok at these temps since this is where the LFS would typicall keep them, however, not knowing the exact type of Octo, I am skeptical. Not knowing exactly what to do, I lowered the Temp to 72 degrees as a comprimise. I do not have oics as he/she is very elusive and is still hiding, but he is redish in color with about a 4cm mantle. Im thinking it may be an O. Rubescens...but cant really know for sure.Any help is appreciated
     
  2. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Let's hope it is not a rubescens as they need the coldest of temps for the ones we keep and we don't often see these, much because of the temp requirements. 72 is probably a good temporary choice for an unknown but way too warm for a ruby and too cold for a warm water species for very long.

    Now, why do you think it is Pacific? Often an LFS does not know the origin of animals purchased from a wholesaler and most wholesalers by Indonesian and, on rare occasions Haitian animals. There are always exceptions. The only observation I have personally made with VERY limited experience is that touching a cold water octopus will feel slimy where the warm water animals only seem slimy after they die. Not much to go by I know but if you handled it at all this might give a bit of a clue.
     
  3. Seamay

    Seamay Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Hi..My LFS is a very reliable source so when he told me it was a Pacific I tend to believe him...though he even admits hes couldnt .tell the exact type
     
  4. Seamay

    Seamay Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    As an update. Something is very wrong. I think I have failed at my attempt to keep one of these guys. he looked horrible last night. As thoughhe was chewing on his legs; tattered and frail. He scooted right over a piece of shrimpp but hasnt eaton anything. This morning looking into the cave with a red light, I cant tell if he is alive...Not sure if I will do this again
     
  5. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Even the most reliable LFSs tend to be clueless when it comes to octopuses.
    The behavior of your octopus is pretty typical for one that is unhappy with its environment. The eating of its own arms is call autofagy. We are not exactly sure why they do it but it does usual signify the end of the animals life.


    Any pictures even post-mortem would be great so as we might be able to figure out what it was.
     
  6. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Please try not to be too hard on yourself. The stress of capture and delivery to the LFS may have had as much (or more) to do with the death of this octopus than the few days it spent in your care.
     
  7. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Ouch, I was going to suggest that the animal is likely Indo-Pacific and likely warm water. Indonesian animals ARE Pacific so the information is likely right but not the assumed location.

    Fortunately, we don't see a lot of this but when we do it is fatal. My one awful experience was with one of my favorite little guy that escaped the tank due to my carelessness doing an extra water change. He was out of the water and exposed to an overhead fan long enough for his arms to be effected. He survived the out of water experience for a couple of days but the arms were effected enough that he began chewing on them and he died within a few days.
     
  8. Tentacle Toast

    Tentacle Toast GPO Supporter Registered

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    I'm sorry about your octopus, Seamay. Although frustrating, listen to Cuttlefish, & don't be too hard on yourself. If you've gone through the process of buying specific equipment & cycling your tank for that LONG 3 months, then obviously a part of your heart is in it. Read the forums; these are a hard class to keep. I'm partially through my tank build (hoping to begin cycling after the holidays), & now the bulk of my focus is going to be determining WHERE to source my octopus. I'm fortunate in that I live within 5 miles of 3 incredibly respected & knowledgeable fish stores (Markhiems, Niagara Aquarium [not to be confused with the Aquarium of Niagara], & The Fish Store, for those familiar with the Buffalo area); none of which I would buy an octopus from. Not because they're unscrupulous, but because it'd be a "special order" for which they themselves wouldn't have all the details. There are people & places that specialize, & you may have better luck going through them. Again, I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience, but I hope you're not too discouraged to give it another go...
     
  9. Seamay

    Seamay Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Thanks for the replies and votes of confidence. I think I am going to do this again...just feel like I took an animal from its home and killed it for no real purpose other than my own facination....sounds cruel when I put it that way huh?...This is the first animal I have lost like this. I have actually purchased sick fish and nursed them back from shock, but this was tough.
    Well, I am going to try to post a pic (post mortem) to see if anyone can ID him/her. With its rather ditinct red color(confirmed by my wife cause I am rather color blind), I still think it was a ruby...but I`ll let you guys make a call...also...who would you recomend to purchase from?As I said before, my LFS is very good but a Ceph specialist they are not, and they admit this.
     
  10. Seamay

    Seamay Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Not sure if this worked

     

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  11. gpx1200

    gpx1200 GPO Registered

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    i've had good luck with the 2 i got from ny aquatic it's a long haul but within driving distance, it was 7 hrs for me but i think your a litle closer. i called and and made arangements before hand and he had 4 for me to chose from when i got there
     
  12. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    The loss of a ceph is something you have to accept if you are going to keep them and Neal reminds me of this when I lament one that is obviously close to its last days. It never gets "easier" but you have to accept that they are short lived and the best we can do is to try to provide a home that lacks some of the natural environment short comings for an animal who's logical purpose is to serve as food for other animals (including humans). The worst challenge is, "why did it die" when you are sure senescence is not the issue. Unfortunately, we often don't have an answer when the water parameters appear "fine". Keeping a journal and reporting losses helps all of us learn. Reporting a loss is hard but helps in the long run.
     
  13. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I am not confident on an ID but the translucence of the skin and the bright red definitely does not rule out O. rubescens (not what I expected to see and is not right for the indo-Pacific red macropus I had expected). If this is the case, the water temperature may well have been a major factor in its demise as even 72 is too warm for them for any period of time (as reported from others that have kept them as I have not).
     
  14. gpx1200

    gpx1200 GPO Registered

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    not to be a trouble maker but i feel the lfs is kind of at fault here, if they can't get such basic information as to it being a coldwater or tropical species they simply should not sell the animal, seems very iresponsable on their part to me
     
  15. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    For some LFS it would be fair to be critical but this is a difficult industry and still relatively new (artificial salt has been commercially available for less than 60 years and SCUBA diving for the general pubic began in the early 1950's). To do business, most have to buy from wholesalers and more or less take what they get. Many educate themselves quite well but still may receive animals (or have a request to fill) where they have no knowledge of the needed care for survival.
    :soapbox:
    There is a lot of criticism for the way the industry is run and we may be seeing some unwanted regulations (vs education and voluntary changes) in the near future. In 2009 a bill was proposed that would have pretty much shut down all imports to the aquarium (as well as other animal related) trade. That bill was defeated for lack of definition (if passed it would have pretty well shut down all but special case live stock imports without identifying any need to block shipment. Proof of harmlessness - the bill was proposed to stop invasive species, not because of animal loss but losses were presented as a point of promoting the bill - would have to come from anyone wanting to sell each individual species) but the pot is still smoldering and we will see new legislation proposed, likely next year.

    Housing, keeping and selling aquarium livestock is a moral tightrope walk. Some of us feel that the aquarium hobby promotes and exposes a greater awareness of the fragile nature and interaction of our environment and the relatively small loss caused by our involvement is countered by our change in understanding and promoting ocean awareness, others find the hobby more destructive than educationally beneficial. When I meet young people that have an addiction to watching nature shows instead of mindless (or worse) cartoons or that can tell me facts about the ocean and some of its critters (most of these discussions are well beyond their parents' knowledge), I can't help but believe that hobbyist have lead the way to making the ocean and its creatures interesting and a topic that is now entering schools and homes with more than just facts about melting ice.

    I tell a story about a pair of kids racing around our under aquarium tunnel looking at all the unusual animals. One of the boys stopped and loudly said something to to the effect of, "COOL, what is THAT?" to which the mother promptly collared the young man and said, "THAT is why we don't go into the ocean" and marched him to the end of the tunnel. The humor in the story was that all the people that were with me immediately stopped and in unison turned to look at me to see what I would do as I would normally have offered an answer to the initial question. After wincing at the mother's reaction, I realized the kids were probably going to be "OK" and I think it is outside exposure that makes it that way.

    So how does my rant tie to the LSF ? If the store (and Seamay has vouched for the knowledge of his LSF) is providing educated understanding of the marine environment to its customers then I don't think irresponsible applies (there is a pet store near me that is not this kind of seller). Hopefully Seamay will report back to the LSF on what happened to the octopus and what he has learned about our unusual pets. I recommend this for any animal that does well or does poorly if you have a regular supplier. Your personal feedback helps them make better choices, and in some cases, require that the wholesalers NOT send them certain animals.
     
  16. Seamay

    Seamay Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Great input here. I will speak with the lfs and let them know what happened and give them my hypothesis; it was a cold water animal. Though not 100 percent positive, it seems like a logical conclusion. Knowing the owner(and the only worker in the store) , he will learn from this.
     

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