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Salt Water for New Tank (was "Ummm...quick question...")
- Thread starter tywtly
- Start date
Ok, I checked at Wal-Mart, and distilled water is 64 cents a gallon. I may be able to afford that as a last resort. Now, I just found out that I have easy access to well water. Is well water acceptable? If so, then I can probably get this volume of well water sometime tomorrow.
You would have to have it tested to see what it contained, what minerals are dissolved in it, and so forth. But it's unlikely that you could use it without running it through an RO/DI system.
I'm sorry all this is so complicated and expensive. Fifty gallons is a lot when you're hauling in water.
Nancy
I'm sorry all this is so complicated and expensive. Fifty gallons is a lot when you're hauling in water.
Nancy
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- Dec 22, 2004
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- 1,713
Tywtly,
It doesn't seem like you're in a position to give an octopus a very good home.
Have you considered keeping something else instead?
It doesn't seem like you're in a position to give an octopus a very good home.
Have you considered keeping something else instead?
I'll have it tested. Is distilled water ok? And yeah, I've considered keeping other things. When I decided to keep an octopus, I lived WAY out in the country and had completely pure spring water. I'm having trouble adjusting to city water. I'm gonna find a way to get pure water though. I might have to buy distilled water from Wal Mart. Is Distilled ok?
Have you also considered a smaller tank or perhaps a freshwater aquarium to start with - there's lots to learn and you could solve many of the supply problems and gain a lot of knowledge.
Nancy
Nancy
I've done freshwater for years, and saltwater too. I had everything I needed before, but since I moved I've lost a lot of resources. I have the experience necessary, just not the water. If distilled water is ok to use, then I have that problem solved. I can buy that at Wal Mart (I finally found a job) for 64 cents a gallon. I'm trying my best not to sound arrogant or anything, and I know this is all coming across making me sound like an arrogant prick, and I'm sorry if it does, but I'm really ready to get this tank going, and I know it sounds like I'm just trying to hear what I want to, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm just trying to think of ways to get past the stupid city water chemicals thing. It's new to me, and I'm sorry if what I've said hasn't quite come across right.
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As long as the distilled water jug says somewhere on it that it has been filtered via reverse osmosis it should be fine for an octopus tank. I've read some people don't like to use it in reef tanks because it contains no beneficial minerals like spring water. I don't know the facts behind that, but I have used it as top off water a few times without incident. I'm pretty sure I've seen jugs of R/O drinking water/spring water for half that price though. Maybe that's just a cost difference from my state to yours.
No one wants to discourage you Tywtly, we all want to help you decide what is best for the octopus. I don't wish to insult you or disrespect you. However, please understand that a lot of the problems you are having could be resolved with further research and better planning, and regardless of whatever experience you say you have had in the past, the situations you have been getting in with your new tank set up do not reflect those of an experienced SW tank owner. I'm not trying to offend you. You show lots of enthusiasm and without a doubt over time I'm sure you'd make a loving owner, but you should seriously be taking this more slowly.
No one wants to discourage you Tywtly, we all want to help you decide what is best for the octopus. I don't wish to insult you or disrespect you. However, please understand that a lot of the problems you are having could be resolved with further research and better planning, and regardless of whatever experience you say you have had in the past, the situations you have been getting in with your new tank set up do not reflect those of an experienced SW tank owner. I'm not trying to offend you. You show lots of enthusiasm and without a doubt over time I'm sure you'd make a loving owner, but you should seriously be taking this more slowly.
Now I think we understand more your situation, which wasn't clear when we started - it's this move that's made things difficult for you. However, you need to go step by step until you have everything you need and you can get your tank set up, then step by step until you've resolved all issues, cycled the tank and are ready for your octopus.
Actually, you don't want to use spring water because it does have minerals. You need to start with a clean slate. I use Ozarka distilled water for my top off and it's worked fine, just like Animal Mother mentions. The book Water Chemistry for the Marine Aquarium mentions that distilled water is OK. However, someone mentioned as a possible problem that the water could be distilled with copper pipes. I'd think you could find out from the manufacturer how the water tests. The other way is to buy your own RO/DI unit.
Make sure you resolve the food issue before you get an octopus - where you'll get it, how much it will cost, what the shipping situation is for you if you need to have it shipped in.
Nancy
Actually, you don't want to use spring water because it does have minerals. You need to start with a clean slate. I use Ozarka distilled water for my top off and it's worked fine, just like Animal Mother mentions. The book Water Chemistry for the Marine Aquarium mentions that distilled water is OK. However, someone mentioned as a possible problem that the water could be distilled with copper pipes. I'd think you could find out from the manufacturer how the water tests. The other way is to buy your own RO/DI unit.
Make sure you resolve the food issue before you get an octopus - where you'll get it, how much it will cost, what the shipping situation is for you if you need to have it shipped in.
Nancy
Ok, thanks everyone. I have already reolved the food issue. I'll be using aquaculturestore.com, and I have more than enough than I need to order food twice a month, about 50 shore shrimp and 50 fiddler crabs. I'll look around for R/O water, but Wal Mart didn't have it. I'll have the distilled water tested at the local water authority and call the manufacturer just to be sure. I'm really enthusiastic about this, and I just now realized I have failed to mention that I've been planning this tank since before I moved, and that's about 5 months. I'm gonna read the labels on the water to make sure that the distilled water is R/O.
Now for the step by step: Right now, I have a everything I need other than a protein skimmer, a fan to cool down the tank a little, and (of course) the water. I can either use distilled water bought from Wal-Mart, or well water. I choose to use Distilled water, based solely on the fact that I can more easily verify what is in it and because it is probably cleaner. Now, I'm gonna get a protein skimmer and a fan sometime within the next month or so. I already know that food can be shipped to me, how much it will cost, and that I have enough money to get it. Soon, I will have my buckets back so I can do monthly (or bi-monthly) water changes. Whether I do monthly or bi-monthly, the water changes will be 25% water changes, so most likely bi-monthly. I have all the test kits and things that I need (including copper test kit). I wouldn't have set up the tank without salt in the first place if I didn't think all my stuff was dead. The rock had been dry for 3 months, and the sand came by UPS and was for some reason already dry, and I thought that meant it was dead. Apparently I was mistaken. I'm sorry I didn't mention all this before. I guess I thought you guys would already know for some reason. I am going to go at this a lot more slowly, because I really, really want to keep an octopus, but if I do keep one, I could not justify keeping it in unsuitable conditions, and I am willing to do what it takes to make my tank suitable, and hopefully better. I'm sorry for this misunderstanding, and thanks for your help.
Now for the step by step: Right now, I have a everything I need other than a protein skimmer, a fan to cool down the tank a little, and (of course) the water. I can either use distilled water bought from Wal-Mart, or well water. I choose to use Distilled water, based solely on the fact that I can more easily verify what is in it and because it is probably cleaner. Now, I'm gonna get a protein skimmer and a fan sometime within the next month or so. I already know that food can be shipped to me, how much it will cost, and that I have enough money to get it. Soon, I will have my buckets back so I can do monthly (or bi-monthly) water changes. Whether I do monthly or bi-monthly, the water changes will be 25% water changes, so most likely bi-monthly. I have all the test kits and things that I need (including copper test kit). I wouldn't have set up the tank without salt in the first place if I didn't think all my stuff was dead. The rock had been dry for 3 months, and the sand came by UPS and was for some reason already dry, and I thought that meant it was dead. Apparently I was mistaken. I'm sorry I didn't mention all this before. I guess I thought you guys would already know for some reason. I am going to go at this a lot more slowly, because I really, really want to keep an octopus, but if I do keep one, I could not justify keeping it in unsuitable conditions, and I am willing to do what it takes to make my tank suitable, and hopefully better. I'm sorry for this misunderstanding, and thanks for your help.
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I can't speak for everyone, but I've noticed that you've got a curious balance between things that you've prepared for extensively, and things that you seem to want to rush or cut corners on. You've done a great job of researching a lot of aspects, but when something catches you by surprise, you seem to rush through dealing with it rather than taking a step back and assessing the situation. Of course, neither of those approaches is always the right answer, and I tend to lean toward the "taking a step back" too much of the time. I think, though, that people are concerned that you've put all this thought and effort into your tank, but you're at risk of running into problems from the water you're using... unfortunately, sometimes a project where you do 90% of everything perfectly can be undone by critical problem in the other 10%. I also know that you've been very much trying to make sure you can do this within your budget, so the "argh! I have to spend money on *water*, too!" response is completely understandable.
Trying to take a step back, I think it's worth looking at the pros and cons of the various water choices, and maybe asking if there are any other possibilities you haven't considered.
1) city water or well water
pros: it's free or cheap, it's right where you need it, so you don't have to transport it
cons: it has just been tested for human consumption, so all sorts of stuff humans don't mind that kills octos could be in it. Also, it's probably chlorinated and deliberately messed up. Also, it may have passed through copper plumbing, which, while it might not add enough copper to cause problems, is an unknown risk
2) wal-mart distilled water
pros: it's not too expensive, it's available, it should be a lot more pure than regular water
cons: it's not intended for aquariums, it's intended for uses like car batteries, so there may be some stuff that's not good in it. And you have to lug 50 or so 1-gallon jugs back from the wal-mart, and another 10 or so every time you want to do a water change, and keep some on hand for emergency water changes and top-offs.
3) finding a local source of RO water
pros: convenient, local RO water is what you really want, if you can get it
cons: it might not exist, and if it does you haven't found it. It also might be more expensive than the distilled water.
4) buying a reverse osmosis unit
pros: this is the best possible solution, because you can turn your city water into RO water. Of course, it takes a while, but since you're short on money, that's probably fine, and most of the time you can sit around and play computer games or read TONMO or whatever while it's filtering.
cons: this will be a big up-front investment to save money in the long term. Some random site I found on google ( Water Filtration Products Catalog – Pure Water Products, LLC ) says they sell theirs for $368, some are as cheap as $189, and some are as expensive as $1300. Obviously, they want to sell theirs, so take that with a bit of skepticism, but let's say you can get one for $400. I think you said the wal-mart distilled water was $0.68/gallon, so that's around, oh, $35 to fill up the whole tank, or $4 for a 10% water change. So if you expect to do 100 water changes, or, say, 75 water changes and a few more major changes and a lot of topping off, a $400 RO unit starts to sound like a better investment.
That's just my first cut at looking at the big picture, I may well have missed some possible options. I think the concern a lot of folks are expressing is that it would be a shame if your octo is harmed because you've got a great setup but you saved a little money on the water in a way that proves unhealthy for the octo. Setting the budget for stuff like this is one of those skills that's pretty hard, and often needs a surprising amount of "slack" planned in to take care of things that come up... I know you've been trying very hard to both stretch your money to make it work, and to set up a very good system for an octopus, and that's a very hard set of constrains to balance. I think we all want to help you succeed, but we don't want to encourage you to move ahead if there might be problems that could wreck the whole project... This is the sort of thing where all the parts have to be in the "good enough" range or it'll work out badly, so the ceph care advice around here may sometimes come across as frustrating, but it's really intended to keep the "learning from mistakes" part of learning anything this complicated from hurting or killing your octopus.
Sometimes, it's pretty frustrating to spend a lot of time on TONMO trying to help people out, since a lot of people come through looking for a quick and cheap answer, and get mad (or just never post again) when there isn't one. I know you've made a good effort to not give up or stop listening when you hit frustrating points like that, so I want to acknowledge you for that, and make sure that you see this as us trying to be helpful in being realistic and successful, not trying to be discouraging. I'm really hoping you'll find a way to make this work, but I really don't want to see you spend all your money on something that almost works, but ends up leaving you with a bunch of expensive equipment and a dead octopus... Of course, I'm one of the least experienced staffers with respect to actual octo-keeping, so really listening to Nancy, Carol, Colin, Cuttlegirl, Jean, D, Thales, Paradox, and Dan (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some) is better than listening to me, but I'm pretty sure they all have the same main goal.
Trying to take a step back, I think it's worth looking at the pros and cons of the various water choices, and maybe asking if there are any other possibilities you haven't considered.
1) city water or well water
pros: it's free or cheap, it's right where you need it, so you don't have to transport it
cons: it has just been tested for human consumption, so all sorts of stuff humans don't mind that kills octos could be in it. Also, it's probably chlorinated and deliberately messed up. Also, it may have passed through copper plumbing, which, while it might not add enough copper to cause problems, is an unknown risk
2) wal-mart distilled water
pros: it's not too expensive, it's available, it should be a lot more pure than regular water
cons: it's not intended for aquariums, it's intended for uses like car batteries, so there may be some stuff that's not good in it. And you have to lug 50 or so 1-gallon jugs back from the wal-mart, and another 10 or so every time you want to do a water change, and keep some on hand for emergency water changes and top-offs.
3) finding a local source of RO water
pros: convenient, local RO water is what you really want, if you can get it
cons: it might not exist, and if it does you haven't found it. It also might be more expensive than the distilled water.
4) buying a reverse osmosis unit
pros: this is the best possible solution, because you can turn your city water into RO water. Of course, it takes a while, but since you're short on money, that's probably fine, and most of the time you can sit around and play computer games or read TONMO or whatever while it's filtering.
cons: this will be a big up-front investment to save money in the long term. Some random site I found on google ( Water Filtration Products Catalog – Pure Water Products, LLC ) says they sell theirs for $368, some are as cheap as $189, and some are as expensive as $1300. Obviously, they want to sell theirs, so take that with a bit of skepticism, but let's say you can get one for $400. I think you said the wal-mart distilled water was $0.68/gallon, so that's around, oh, $35 to fill up the whole tank, or $4 for a 10% water change. So if you expect to do 100 water changes, or, say, 75 water changes and a few more major changes and a lot of topping off, a $400 RO unit starts to sound like a better investment.
That's just my first cut at looking at the big picture, I may well have missed some possible options. I think the concern a lot of folks are expressing is that it would be a shame if your octo is harmed because you've got a great setup but you saved a little money on the water in a way that proves unhealthy for the octo. Setting the budget for stuff like this is one of those skills that's pretty hard, and often needs a surprising amount of "slack" planned in to take care of things that come up... I know you've been trying very hard to both stretch your money to make it work, and to set up a very good system for an octopus, and that's a very hard set of constrains to balance. I think we all want to help you succeed, but we don't want to encourage you to move ahead if there might be problems that could wreck the whole project... This is the sort of thing where all the parts have to be in the "good enough" range or it'll work out badly, so the ceph care advice around here may sometimes come across as frustrating, but it's really intended to keep the "learning from mistakes" part of learning anything this complicated from hurting or killing your octopus.
Sometimes, it's pretty frustrating to spend a lot of time on TONMO trying to help people out, since a lot of people come through looking for a quick and cheap answer, and get mad (or just never post again) when there isn't one. I know you've made a good effort to not give up or stop listening when you hit frustrating points like that, so I want to acknowledge you for that, and make sure that you see this as us trying to be helpful in being realistic and successful, not trying to be discouraging. I'm really hoping you'll find a way to make this work, but I really don't want to see you spend all your money on something that almost works, but ends up leaving you with a bunch of expensive equipment and a dead octopus... Of course, I'm one of the least experienced staffers with respect to actual octo-keeping, so really listening to Nancy, Carol, Colin, Cuttlegirl, Jean, D, Thales, Paradox, and Dan (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some) is better than listening to me, but I'm pretty sure they all have the same main goal.
Oh, I knew you guys weren't discouraging me. I didn't mean what I said like that. I really appreciate all this. I'd rather learn from you guys than learn from my mistakes! And about the water thing, I plan to buy an RO unit some day, just not this day. I have the money for the water right now, and I understand the thing about how much the water will add up to be over time, but I can't afford an RO unit right now. I really wish that I could. I really respect you guys, and I'm sorry it seems like I haven't been listening to your advice. I'm just trying to think of ways to get this tank set up. I'm stepping back, and I'm trying to decide on my best option of water. I guess my best bet would be the Wal Mart water for now, and I'm hopefully gonna get an RO unit one day. If I do get the water from Wal Mart, then I'm gonna do a copper test on it, have it tested at the local water authority, and call the manufacturer to get as much info on it.
$400 seems expensive for an RO unit. The LFS I work at sells 25 GPD ones for $120 and 50 GPD for $180. Either is enough for the intentions of most people on this site.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
- Messages
- 3,026
I'm not sure that you would be saving all that much money by having the water tested. It depends on where you are, but many water testing places are really expensive. Take your time and check around for a less expensive RO. It will be worth it in the long run. Check out on line aquarium supply places
and also find out if there are any aquarium clubs in your area. Sometimes people have to give up hobbies and have used equipment they want to sell.
and also find out if there are any aquarium clubs in your area. Sometimes people have to give up hobbies and have used equipment they want to sell.
Well, as DWhatley already know, and prolly a few others on here know, I've already thoroughly checked for aquarium societies. And the water authority here charges $5 for water tests. And I think I'm gonna try to afford an RO unit. It seems like my best bet. I'll probably either do that or try to find a local source of RO.
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