New Bimac Tank

Discussion in 'Cephalopod Journals' started by Zeus Zoso, Nov 12, 2006.

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  1. Zeus Zoso

    Zeus Zoso Blue Ring Registered

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    My name is Alex, my name on N-R is ReefApprentice for those who care. My uncle has 100 baby bimacs and is bringing me one, so I have to set-up a tank by the 25th. I have 1 year experience in saltwater, so I am past the initial learning curve, and am on to more advanced topics rather than live rock and what it is. So I am getting a tank, maybe a 45 gallon, maybe a 60 for this magnificent creature. If it is a 45, I will be using a Fluval 204, Aqua C Remora protein skimmer, as well as around 30lbs of established live rock, and 30lbs of established live sand. Since the magic day of my octos arrival is in 2 weeks, I have to get moving!

    I plan to keep the tank at 71 degrees, which is as low as I can go, without using a fan. If anyone has good ideas on how to cool the tank without spending a hetfy amount of money on a chiller, lmk. I will use a regular flourescent light, run for 7 hours a day. Since this octo will only be 3mths old when I get him/her, I will feed baby nass. snails from my display, and silversides if I can. For the long term I will go to the tidepools and collect crabs and snails, and various other creatures for this tank!

    I will hopefully have the tank full of LR and LS, running with a filter and skimmer by monday. Any tips or hints would be great. If you are interested in an octopus email me at radnerd(at)cox.net. Thanks, Alex
     
  2. Brock Fluharty

    Brock Fluharty Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    It will take your tank much longer than 2 weeks to cycle, and we recommend 3 months for it to mature for an octopus. 2 weeks just isn't enough time, and if you have a year experience, then you should know how to cycle a tank, and how long it takes. Go with the 60. Minimum for a bimac is 50.
     
  3. Zeus Zoso

    Zeus Zoso Blue Ring Registered

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    The idea was that there is no cycle. The tanks at stores can set-up in 15 minutes, because all of the LR is established, as well as sand, and filtration. My real concern now is LR. If I get it from my established "reef" which is 78 degrees, won't most of the bacteria die if kept at 72 degrees? I am doing this because its either now or never.


    Thanks,
    Alex
     
  4. Fishfreak218

    Fishfreak218 GPO Registered

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    lower the temp sloly over a period of a few days
    if u have enough time...
    if u dont have alot of time then kinda rush the temp drop
     
  5. Brock Fluharty

    Brock Fluharty Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    It doesn't take 15 minutes...read some articles...
     
  6. Fishfreak218

    Fishfreak218 GPO Registered

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    what doesnt take 15 minutes??
     
  7. Zeus Zoso

    Zeus Zoso Blue Ring Registered

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    Want to explain to me how it is different? I love how people tell me things, and there is no reason to it. Does the "really" good algae only grow in that tank. Is the water not "live"?...lol Are you saying that if I had two 50 gallon tanks next to each other, one filled with LR, and LS, and it has been established for 10 years, that I could transfer it over to the tank with new SW and it would have to cycle? Makes no sense... I don't wanna argue, just back your statements. I am getting the rock Saturday and the Octo the next Friday or Saturday, so I will start at 78 and lower it to 72 degrees over the week. This is what I am worried will cause a cycle, and in this case Brock or whatver could be right, but only in this situation. Thanks FF218 for helping me with the situation, not telling me I am dumb, its what I have and I am working with it. I am most likely going to buy a 50-60gallon tank, and build a stand this week, so it's ready for Sat, when I get the rock. I am also using the CC65 rather than AquaC, which is too much $, and when the octo dies I am getting two maroon clowns to get dirty and make babies.Will the glass cycle if I put it on a new stand?

    lol
    Alex
     
  8. Zeus Zoso

    Zeus Zoso Blue Ring Registered

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    I did some "reading" and when I change my filter media next weekend, I will transfer the little balls over, so that I get even more good stuff! Even if I get a tiny ammonia cycle, he should be fine with a small amount, which I most likely wont have, and with a skimemr I should be a ok.
    alex
     
  9. Fishfreak218

    Fishfreak218 GPO Registered

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    HAHA!! im srry but that was funny!
    lol um i like my CSS65 better then my AquaC it pules out more and idk.. i just like it better
     
  10. Fishfreak218

    Fishfreak218 GPO Registered

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    have extra water on hand! it helped me when my nitrates got to 10ppm
     
  11. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

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    Hi Zeus,

    Let me apologize for the behavior of some of the other forum-goers. You have a right to ask questions without being insulted. Let me answer a few q's:

    No, the water isn't "live." It does have some bacteria in it, but not much. You can't transfer water from an established tank to make your new tank established.

    Think about LR as a filter material. Obviously you know that if you move a substantial amount of cured LR into a new tank there won't be much of a cycle. This works very well on reef tanks because reefs usually have a very low bioload compared to the amount of live rock. Ceph tanks usually have a bit more bioload so it can get a bit sketchy, and LR alone won't handle it in the long run.

    Even for a fresh tank, establishing the nitrogen cycle only takes a few weeks. Unfortunately that isn't the only thing happening chemically in a new tank: the chemical reactions in the carbon cycle behind pH also need to come to an equilibrium based on a number of tank-specific variables: surface area for gas exchange, surface area for carbonate dissolution and temperature/salinity and thus solubility of both things. Thus, even if you transfer a complete filter (in your case live rock) from an established tank and don't have to worry about the nitrogen cycle, you still should wait a number of weeks for these other things to balance out. This is why TONMO collectively suggests 4-8 weeks even though the initial nitrogen cycle is only 3-4.

    Also, I would skip the live sand. Its a rip-off. There isn't much nitrifying bacteria at all in it compared with live rock: you're essentially paying three or four times as much as regular sand just for some amphipods; and there will be plenty of amphipods in the live rock you get.

    Good luck,

    Dan
     
  12. Zeus Zoso

    Zeus Zoso Blue Ring Registered

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    Thank you for the thought out response. Sooo...now I am somewhat confused lol. What is your response to my tank starting in a week. Thank you for the explanation of it all, but if I were to set up a 60g, put 60g of new SW in, 50lbs of LR, and a decent amount of bioballs, some sand, and let it sit for a week, what would happen? I mean I could do that and test the water, to see if there is an ammonia spike. I think that it would be okay, because we are dealing with an extremely small animal, 3" in length, and I think by the time it reaches a size of producing a bioload which is large, the lr and such can compensate, and become effective. I hope you understood all of that. I wanted some more opinions on LR, and changing it from 78 degrees to 72 or whatever, and if I will experience a cycle because some animals can't handle that change living in the rocks.

    Thanks,
    Alex
     
  13. AprylWillis

    AprylWillis GPO Registered

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    I did transfer water from a previous tank into our new 55 gallon tank, but I made DAMN sure that it was all CYCLED.

    Even the sand and rock had been cycled.

    The octopus is going to be one of the most sensitive salt-water creatures you will ever deal with in your salt water aquarium. If you aren't new to salt-water aquariums, then you will know all about this. I would suggest waiting like I did. It is a painful experience to wait for a pet octopus, but can't you plead with your uncle to send you the octopus at a later date?

    We made the mistake of introducing an octopus into our other tank thinking it would "acclimate" itself. Even if you have the top notch skimmer, filter, etc it isn't going to stay alive.

    Ours is staying alive now because we put enough time and care into his well-being. We got him when he was an infant bimac. When we brought him home, we put him into a plastic container so that he would acclimate with the new environment.

    It would be like someone taking you out of your bedroom and sticking you in Alaska. You wouldn't like that, would you? Especially if the person wasn't properly prepared to care for you.

    I'm not saying that what you are doing is wrong, it's just that I hope you aren't paying too much for this octopus and that you are prepared for the worst outcome.

    I also like the use of live sand. I have about 5 inches of it in my aquarium. (I think!) The amphipods help break down any dead material that you might have missed, giving you a much more healthier tank and a happier octo! It isn't necessary, but I would still look into it.

    To each her own.

    Good luck!
     
  14. Zeus Zoso

    Zeus Zoso Blue Ring Registered

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    It's free, and I think that if I do water changes, it should all be okay. This is my only chance to get one, and he has been caring for octo's for 30 years, so I am going to follow his judgement. If he thinks its not going to work, so be it. Thank you for responding, because it gave me a gauge on the plausibility of it all. He just gave me such short notice, and my dad is being unsupportive (I am 16) and he wont put down any money and always makes excuses why we can't get that certain thing because it is bootlegged (DIY) or it is too much or whatever. Either way I think it will work out fine.
    More opinions welcome.
    Alex

    BTW I am getting one in 2 weeks no matter what, so try and help me prepare, rather than saying I can't do it, help me do it.
     
  15. AprylWillis

    AprylWillis GPO Registered

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    Octo

    As long as you have time and patience, it should all work out well. I think you are mature enough and with plenty of understanding on the care of a pet octopus. It's a shame your dad doesn't feel the same way.

    What an awesome uncle! I wish my uncle raised bimacs! You are so lucky to have that source! Let me know when he starts selling them?

    I just think that you should invest in live sand. It can bring the nitrates down, etc and you will have a much more healthier octo. I almost neglected to put live sand in the tank, but I think it improves it by 50%. I'm not an expert, but I learned by watching others and with my own experience.

    We currently have about 40 pounds of live rock and a homemade skimmer. The skimmer that we had, currently broken, worked wonders. It had a much more powerful suction and it cleaned the tank better than the store bought skimmer. We bought one from a LFS and we souped it up so that it out-performed itself. (I think that's what killed it, we're checking the stat to see if we can save it. I think we can.)

    Also, be prepared to get live crab! He may not be happy eating just frozen shrimp! Crabs provide essential nutrients for the octopus to keep him active and healthy. There are also drops that you can put in the water to decrease the rate of nitrates and nitrites. Look for it at PetCo, it's called Quickdrop and it works wonders!

    It will drop your nitrate by 2 bars. I would suggest looking into this since you are getting the octopus in a week. It really does work!

    Make sure that it's octo-proof. I custom built mine and I will put pictures on here someday. We even provided the octopus with a dimmer so that we can adjust how much light he receives. Octo's hate the light. (For some reason, mine is very active during the day. Strange octo!)

    Invest in ALOT of live rock. Don't skimp on anything, but don't do an overkill either. I don't want you going bankrupt at age 16!

    I use a cascade filter and I have had SO many people tell me that they dont' work. In actuality, it works great! I have NO amonia in my tank and it's because of the cascade!

    This board is really just based on personal experience and everyone has their own point of view on how to care for an octopus. I am not an expert and I want to point that out again, I am only speaking from my experience as an octopus owner. We have had our little guy for over 3 months now. We like to keep at least 20 crab on hand every 2 weeks. We feed him frozen shrimp every other day. Sometimes we feed him every other day also.

    I prepared my tank in under a week and my octopus is doing fine. I think it's only because I use already prepared salt water and I used the 3 month cycled water from my 30 gallon. It is possible. I would keep my hopes up and ask as many questions as possible. It's really a hit or miss right now.
     
  16. Fishfreak218

    Fishfreak218 GPO Registered

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    ^your water doesnt really 'cycle'
    its the LR and LS that does the 'cycling'
    from what I understand zeus is taking established LR from another one of his tanks..
    i think it will work out fine...get the skimmer though.. (i didnt have one at first, you'd be surprised how much it pulls out!)
     
  17. Zeus Zoso

    Zeus Zoso Blue Ring Registered

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    OMG thank you for that response lol...that helped a ton
    Where do you live? He is selling the bimacs already, they are 2.5mths old right now. If you are not in picking up area, pay for shipping and its yours. What do you think about a 60g cube? How would that work out? If not, I am going to set-up a 15g temporary, and then keep looking for something within a month. Thanks,
    Alex
     
  18. AprylWillis

    AprylWillis GPO Registered

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    Tank

    I don't see why a 60 gallon cube wouldn't work. I've seen people put their octo's in that type of design before and everything seeme to work out just fine! Please, PLEASE get a skimmer! You can find them on eBay right now. You don't have to spend +$100!

    We don't need a new octo right now, but I would like to keep your uncle in mind for when we do!
     
  19. AprylWillis

    AprylWillis GPO Registered

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    Also, I used the term "water cycle" because that is what most people recognize when we are talking about cycling. :indiffer:
     
  20. Zeus Zoso

    Zeus Zoso Blue Ring Registered

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    LOl... im not a nubzor, i know all about the nitrogen cycle..i found a 55 gallon so thats what I have... for skimmer, what should I get? I can get a CSS65 for 60 or a AquaC Remora for 100ish? Any other opinions? I am going to get a canister filter as well, but I don't think it matters which.
    Thanks alex
     
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