Hi guys!!!

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by Oktoputeao, Dec 8, 2005.

  1. Oktoputeao

    Oktoputeao O. bimaculoides Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi guys, I'm from Spain, and oviusly I'm newby here. I have a couple of questions; Let's go!!!!

    1- I live near to the mediterranian sea, What cefalopods leave here? ( I think just live here O.vulgaris, and S.officinalis isn't it?)

    2- Any special acuarium conditions for this species?

    2- Can I feed it whit sweet water river crabs (P. clarkii)?
     
  2. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey man :welcome: to Tonmo.

    Personally I would love an O. Vulgaris, cool looking octos. The S. Officinalis would require a BIG tank, as they grow huge. I think 70g+ is a good size for the O. Vulgaris, not too sure on that though.

    As for feeding it with P. clarkii, (a fresh water crustacean) personally I think that it's ok, but I think many would dissagree (Jean! :grin:).

    The reason being after reading this: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/invert.htm.
    and comparing the two foods, I think its acceptable.

    But there are most likely some elements in marine food that arent found in fresh, so you are definately best off with marine, but overall there isnt too much difference in the basic nutrition they provide - fresh could actually be called healthier!! (lot less saturated fats).

    If you havent already have a read through these:
    http://www.tonmo.com/cephcare/cephcarejump.php
    -should point you in the right direction.
     
  3. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,218
    Likes Received:
    138
    Location:
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    You'd be right there!

    nonoNO! You end up with lethargic animals more prone to disease and ultimately an increased mortality rate!

    J
     
  4. Paradox

    Paradox Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey jean, is this something that youve obeserved with your specimens? When cuttles of mine reach a good size, I tend to feed mostly shore crabs, and ghost shrimp.feeder guppies. I would love to keep feeding marine shrimp..but with 15 mouths to feed Im spending about 30$ a week just on shrimp..

    Do you think shore crabs will provide enough nutirents??
     
  5. Euprymna

    Euprymna O. vulgaris Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey oktopute:welcome:
    There is more than two species of cephalopods living in the mediteranean sea. Don't forget the squids, however you won't be able to keep those in your home aquarium! You also have members of the family sepiolidae, which are relatively easy to maintain in aquaria (when adults), such as Rossia macrosoma, Sepiola robusta, Sepiola rondeleti; Sepiola obscura, S. neglecta...you also have also other species of octos such as O.macropus. So you've got plenty of choice...however, since it appears tobe your first ceph tank, you might want to try keeping O.vulgaris first as they are relatively easy...but beware they grow very fast!!

    eups
     
  6. Oktoputeao

    Oktoputeao O. bimaculoides Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks guys for the answers!!! Squids...:sink: ! ( Bom pais e bom alimento o que teis alí :wink: )

    I can get all this species, just I have to say to a fisherman that give to me one ceph alive ( oviously pre-payment:hmm: ). Or just I have to go to the sea to catch it ( relative more difficult and not safe for the animal, maybe not good idea).

    In other hand, where do you obtain the crabs? Fishing? Buying it alive?
    Whats up with fresh crabs no alive for feed octos?

    An another think: Has Mark Norman any other book? I have the guide of cephalopods of the world and I get in love deffinitively of this animals?

    P.D: I was though I was the only man who like this guys; internet surprise me all days, and the number of messages of Jean surprise me still more.
     
  7. Armstrong

    Armstrong Vampyroteuthis Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0

    Just to make sure...

    How are you planning to the keep any octopus? Do you have a saltwater tank ready with the right supplies needed, right size, water quality and parameters set up? Obtaining a live octopus may be difficult...but you live somewere else unlike me. Im not too sure if fisherman would allow you to have a live caught octopus from the ocean which is needed for their job...which is catching them for consumption sadly. I was actually thinking the same thing, but fisheries won't let you in...and won't let you purchase anything alive whatsoever unless you have a licensed card or somthing like that. I would just order the best species to get online.
     
  8. Oktoputeao

    Oktoputeao O. bimaculoides Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all; I can't keep any octopus here. I'm just inform myselve to learn more about cephs, and if is possible, keep one of it. Be quite, I'm xperiencied in exotic animals keeping, and I know the 4 basic conditions that an animal need.( space to live, feeding, athmosferic/water parametres and others from the sp. that we are try to keep). Don't worry about the mediterranean sea octopus.:wink:

    [​IMG]

    For me obtain a live octopus is easy. My grandmothers has 3 fishing boats with mans working in it (I just have to pay to them a little bit more than I pay for a death octopus), my uncle is the second main director of market boats in a province here in spain, a family friend fish octopus with a little boat and without damage and when his health permit it, and the last one is me; I have undersea fish lisence.

    [​IMG]

    But what is the problem? I live about 40 miles far away from the sea, but here exist fishshop specialiced in seawater acuariums, and it is the reason for that that I'm answering so much.

    If I can get octopus, and breed them, I think is a good idea leave it again to sea. Is really nice be swiming when suddenly, a stone become in something strange that start to move changing to white color, to finally go away in the middle of a black ink cloud. Fantastic!

    ( Don't worry about fishing liscence; the octopus that I fish are ONLY the oldest ones)
     
  9. TidePool Geek

    TidePool Geek O. vulgaris Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Oktoputeao,

    You ask what would be required to keep an octopus from your local area
    and what species you're likely to find there.

    The most common species for the western Mediterranean is Octopus
    vulgaris but, since there are at least 51 species of cephs in the Med
    (mostly the eastern Med) there could be several others. The pictures
    you posted indicate that you're a SCUBA diver or snorkeler; I suggest
    a trip to your favorite dive shop to buy a field guide to your local
    marine life because you REALLY want to know what sort of animal you're
    bringing home!

    Assuming that you get an O. vulgaris here are some things you'll want
    to take care of:

    1. Space - In terms of a home aquarium O. vulgaris is a big animal.
    According to CephBase these guys can reach 125cm in total length and
    2400gm in weight. For something that size a 450L tank is probably too
    small although there are some folks who have kept these in a tank that
    size. 800 to 1000L would be better for the animal's comfort and for
    stable water quality.

    2. Stable temperature - O. vulgaris is best kept at approximately 18C
    but it's just as important to make sure that the temperature doesn't
    fluctuate. Keep in mind that littoral marine animals might go months
    without having so much as a single degree of temperature change.
    Depending on the ambient temperature of your house, you may need a
    heater, a chiller, or both.

    3. Stable chemistry - Just as with temperature, marine animals don't
    deal well with changes so you'll want your tank to mimic, as closely
    as possible, the octopus' natural environment.
    3a. Salinity - If I remember correctly, the Med. is somewhat saltier
    than the Atlantic. It would be a good idea to check on this before you
    mix up your water. Also keep in mind that the salinity in your tank
    will try to change as time goes by so you'll also want to be able to
    test and adjust it on a regular basis.
    3b. pH/Oxygen/CaCO3 - These things plus light are all related in ways
    that I don't fully understand but suffice it to say that it's
    especially important to keep oxygen levels high (but without
    introducing microbubbles into the tank) for an octopus. Octos use a
    copper based pigment for oxygen transport in their blood and it's just
    no where near as efficient as the iron based hemoglobin in our blood.
    3c. Nutrients - Mainly nitrogen but also phosphorus compounds. In an
    aquarium, nitrogen manifests itself in three ways A. Ammonia - Very
    Bad! B. Nitrites - Pretty Bad. &C. Nitrates - Not great but not so bad
    either. Read the articles in the "Ceph Care" section of this site for
    strategies to remove or reduce these compounds. [Remember to scale-up
    from the description since O. vulgaris is something like five times
    the size of the more commonly kept O. bimaculoides. Phosphates can be
    dealt with through the use of algae or it can apparently be fixed into
    a harmless form through the use of a dedicated "phosphate sponge".

    4. Food - Lots of it! When O. vulgaris reaches senescence it can be
    more than a million times its size as a hatchling. What's more is that
    it does all of this growing over the course of a 14 month lifespan.
    Obviously, it's going to eat a lot and, to make matters worse, octos
    tend to be messy eaters. That's potentially a strain on your budget
    and on whatever filtration system you choose. Since it's probably too
    far to go to the shore for octo food yourself, the best overall
    compromise will be to train your octo to take (thawed) frozen shrimp
    and other marine foods. Some folks feed a few fresh water items to
    their octo as a "treat" but, as a full time diet, you run the risk of
    the feed being deficient in one or more nutrients. Lots of food being
    eaten by a slob also means lots of food scraps and octo waste in the
    tank. DON'T skimp on your filtration! It's not uncommon among octo
    keepers to install twice the filtration that you'd expect to find in a
    fish only tank of the same size.

    5. Escape proofing - A fully grown O. vulgaris can squeeze through a
    hole about the size of your little finger. Further, they can lift a
    surprisingly heavy tank lid far enough to escape. If you don't
    completely escape-proof your tank your octo will most likely escape 5
    minutes after you leave for a long summer weekend. We, in the United
    States, attribute this sort of thing to Murphy's Law*; I don't know if
    you've got anything similar in Spain but over here Murphy has become
    extremely popular due to the government that we've saddled ourselves
    with for the last several years.


    Vulgarly yours,

    Alex


    *Murphy's Law - Anything that can go wrong......Will go wrong.
     
  10. Oktoputeao

    Oktoputeao O. bimaculoides Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    My idea was keep a O. vulgaris, but I will go to buy a book for inform myself better about the species that live in the mediterranean sea.
    In the other hand, I'm very glad with you for help to me in the reserch of octopus care information.
    Thanks guy.

    P.D: Here in spain Murphy's book is also very famous.
     
  11. Armstrong

    Armstrong Vampyroteuthis Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just like to say that your very lucky that you've got great connections...unlike me, I have absolutely NO connections so everything I get involved with about octopuses has to be done the long way sadly:sad:
     
  12. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,218
    Likes Received:
    138
    Location:
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    Yes it is, both in cephs and a variety of marine fish. I don't see why shore crabs wouldn't provide enough nutrients. Our Midget octopus gets only those (unless they sneak into the next door tank for a munch on the glass shrimp :roll: ) and they do just fine (in fact Gerbil has a clutch of eggs at the moment!)

    J
     
  13. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,218
    Likes Received:
    138
    Location:
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    We collect them from the beach and for large crabs we set out crab pots (the Lab/Aquarium has a fishing permit for that). Many species won't take dead food (Our NZ species are very reluctant....actually if it isn't alive they won't look at it!).

    He does, its called (I think! :grin:) "the octopus, cuttlefish and squid of Australasia"

    Yeah I can get into educator mode very easily! :grad: But I feel very strongly about feeding the appropriate food to captive animals (I'm sure you all noticed that!) If we are going to keep them in an unnatural environment for our enjoyment and/or education then the onus is on us to feed them as well (or better) than they would get in the wild..............OK I'll climb down from my soapbox now :oops:

    J

    PS anyway I'm not the TOP poster, I still got some to go to beat him!!!!!!!
     
  14. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Jean, just out of interest is a diet based on freshwater crustaceans but supplimented with marine ok? Say with a 80% : 20% ratio. Has anyone tried this type of thing?
     
  15. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,218
    Likes Received:
    138
    Location:
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    Probably, I know the marine critters LIKE the freshwater stuff, bit like having a chocolate bar I think..........so as an occasional treat I don't see why not (although I'd be inclined to go 90:10. Which is the ratio my dogs get dog food/human food!!)

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I just noticed I read that the wrong way round! A marine animals diet should be based on MARINE food with freshwater treats not 'tother way round!!! so 90% marine, 10% Fresh!!!!

    J
     
  16. WhiteKiboko

    WhiteKiboko Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Charleston
    much like chocolate for dogs, cant that 10% be a doozy?
     
  17. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,218
    Likes Received:
    138
    Location:
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    Weeeeeeeeeeell the dogs don't get human choc (poisonous or something to dogs!) but they do enjoy the occasional cookie!

    J
     
  18. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Its funny because I know some people whos dog ate a chocolate cake, with no ill effects. He obviously loved the taste- which surprised me given that it's toxic to them. I think some dogs are more succeptable than others maybe.

    On the fresh vrs marine food thing dont worry, I'll be going totally marine, but I'm just interested in the idea. I was just thinking that any nutrients that are only available in marine food would be accounted for via marine supplimentation. Clearly a little marine would be better than none at all, I was thinking it might have a more pronounced effect.

    For example the difference between a 90% marine diet and a 85% marine diet is probably neglegible, but maybe the difference between a 5% marine and a 0% marine might be much larger. Its kinda hard to explain what I mean.
     
  19. Oktoputeao

    Oktoputeao O. bimaculoides Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Jean!
    I'll buy this book!
     

Share This Page