Confused ?

Discussion in 'Tank Talk' started by Kharn, Jul 25, 2008.

  1. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    Hello

    Alright I've been religiously going through the old threads/Articles and forums in search of more info (you can NEVER! have enough info) and came across something that confused me ?

    You may or may not see where my confusion is....

    Now, I am getting confused because I know that Colin is also a very high regarded member on here, and from what he has said seems to be in a differen't direction to others? But the majority of threads (no offence to others) I have read about whilst on here, Colin has either been in the thread somewhere or is the actual thread starter. I hope you can see where my confusion is :cry: please help (you said in multiple threads that the more the Questions, the better :twisted: I make you pay now with the bombardment of QQ's!!)
     
  2. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Sometimes the more you read, the more confusing it gets. Stay away from looking into reef lighting for awhile:razz:

    What you are seeing is not really contridictory and you are missing a few of the key words:

    Both statements reflect a choice of the available system setups. There are several other arrangements that are considered acceptable as well. Getting started is the hard part as you need to pick one and go with it. If you stay in the hobby, it will not be your choice the next time around but what you learn from it will influence what you do next. Most everyone has some kind of hybrid system that takes a little from column A and a little from column B as the ideal system does not exist (even in the ocean - especially now) and the best known, flow through system, is not available to most home aquarists.

    In all cases you will need to commit to consistent water changes. The smaller the water volume, the more frequently you need to change out some of the water even if you do the same volume or percentage of water change over a given period. For a ceph tank, this is true, regardless of your biological filter method. The more external filtration (non-liverock) you have, the more attention you must pay to cleaning it (IMO this includes bio balls and bio-wheels and substate). Some of what you will read about the artificial bacteria generators is written for reef tanks only and does not take livestock (things that really poop) into account.

    You have probably read enough now to get some idea of the different set-ups (picking up a book that gives the multiple configurations is a good idea to weigh the pros and cons - make your notes in the book for review and future reference) so I would recommend that you now think about the maintenance aspects of each set-up and your own comfort zone on the amount of time you will spend each week. If you envision one aspect of a specific set up as a real "chore" rather than something you can enjoy doing, think about an alternate.

    If it were cut and dry, where would the fun be?:sagrin:
     
  3. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    Thanks for the Swift response

    Firstly and not to sound to obsessed with Ceph's
    I don't know about most aquarium keepers but cleaning too me is part of the Fun :lol: (you get to REALLY see what is going on when you clean and pull apart). However onto the real deal, I do believe I have read up enough and have enough Information (not to mention Tonmo aswell 8-) ), to begin the setup.

    The reason I am so "QQ" and paranoid about the setup is because I am on a rather large budget $5,500 and am willing to spend every last cent (which is WHY I am optimising to go for the best enviroment for my little ceph, I aint going "cheap-o" in NO areas for this, I intend to get all equipment based on larger systems to keep water conditions as perfect as I can).

    I managed to have a peek at the "how much your setup cost?" area and saw a range of priced setups, good setups there with some good pricing and tips. I probably should of mentioned my budget earlier :hmm: may have made more sense since some systems can be setup for
     
  4. esquid

    esquid Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    It's like anything else, somethings work for some people, but not other people. With reef tanks some people have to do a water change every week to keep their tank happy, while other people only do water changes twice a year and their tanks are thriving (my boss:mad:).

    erin
     
  5. shipposhack

    shipposhack Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    Stability is the key to success. When a tank is first set up you will have to monitor it a lot more closely than you will a year later. With a good protein skimmer and proper nitrification, realistically there should be no reason for you to have to frequent water changes unless you have too large of a bioload. I am not recommending you purposefully neglect your tank as it's age increases, but I believe that eventually most people will look back one day and say, "Wow, I haven't done a water change for 6 weeks, and my tank is thriving more than ever." Virtually the only reason to do a water change in a healthy, established tank is to re-introduce trace elements that your corals use from your sea salt mix that you don't add to the water column. If your tank is running well, necessary water changes in order to reduce nitrogen and phosphorus levels should be minimal. It is still good to do water changes as a precautionary measure, especially when you have thousands of dollars invested into your setup.
     
  6. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I will more or less agree (I would put a two year observation time, not one) IF YOU ARE CREATING A REEF TANK. Your bio-load statement is ALWAYS the case with a full tank of fish or a single octopus and a home aquarium just can't handle the waste (the ocean does it's own water changes daily). This is the point I was trying to make when I said that much of the literature does not make the distinction or makes one small, unclear statement about the live stock.
     
  7. esquid

    esquid Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    I was just using the different water change routines people have for reef tanks as an example to demonstrate that two different methods can both be successful. I was not implying that infrequent water changes are an appropriate way to run ceph tanks.

    erin
     
  8. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I had started to say that I bet he didn't keep many FISH (nor do I) :wink:.

    I acquired some of my original reef from one that was over 10 years old. Our friends did very little to their reef and when he died, we acquired the tank but not until after it had declined radically after no maintenance. Finding that happy medium (that changes) is part of the enjoyment of having a reef and seeing it change. Most fish (quantity as well as species and size weigh heavily, one clown or mandarin in a large tank has little impact) and cephs, however, don't fall into that part of the hobby (or maybe reef, fish and cephs are all really separate hobbies.) I was trying (someday I will learn to communicate) to explain why it appears there are many successful saltwater setups that appear to be in conflict but the key to learning to keep a healthy tank is heavily weighted by the types of critters that live in the aquarium.
     
  9. esquid

    esquid Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    Oh, I thought that we were on the same page, I just wanted to clarify what I had meant earlier. I thought that an aquarium example would be better than the cooking one I almost used. I think you are right reef is to ceph as knitting is to crochett, they use some of the same stuff and people think they are the same from a distance.

    As for the boss' tank (this is my aquaculture boss), he's not neglecting it. He runs tests and adds supplements, he just doesn't do frequent water changes. Europeans are weird like that I guess ( and this is the one time he read anything on this forum)
     
  10. shipposhack

    shipposhack Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    I think that people should treat all of their fish tanks as they would a reef tank, filteration wise. You can skimp on lighting on some setups where lower lighting is preferrable (such as cephs), however filteration equipment should generally be the same. People say, "I am only going to do fish (or an octopus, or lionfish, or whatever) so I will be fine with a skimmer rated lower than my water volume, a sump as small as possible, no powerheads, very little liverock, etc." The truth is that that line of thinking will most likely eventually lead you to a poor aquarium environment. If somebody asks me how big of a tank I think they should get, I tell them as big as they can afford. I don't recommend they buy the most expensive, brand name equipment, as long as it is high quality the person will be happy with it.

    Another interesting thing with specialty tanks is that although they typically have more needs for mechanical filteration those are the tanks that get shafted the most. Like dwhatley said, a reef environment has a lot of different organisms that help take care of the ecosystem than most specialty tanks are able to have. Since that is the case, they usually require more care.

    esquid- I wasn't saying that your boss was neglecting his tank. Almost every reefer I know with long-term experience does not do many water changes, and that is because they don't need to, not because they are ignoring their tanks.
     
  11. esquid

    esquid Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    Don't worry, it's been the weekend of my misinterpreting posts and then over explaining myself or posting back angry. Just be glad that you aren't a certain dance teacher in Bangor. I'm still thinking of dropping a house on her, being feed to the lobsters is better than she deserves.
     
  12. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    :goofysca: Note to self: Don't make Erin mad... :razz:
     
  13. esquid

    esquid Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    you sound like the people I work with:twisted:
     

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