• Looking to buy a cephalopod? Check out Tomh's Cephs Forum, and this post in particular shares important info about our policies as it relates to responsible ceph-keeping.

Complete newbie requesting help with first octopus setup!

Re: the torrent files. It is very simple: go here Thank you for Downloading µTorrent (uTorrent) and install the uTorrent program. Now when you click on the links I posted in the article they will simply be queued up in uTorrent and download into the folder you select. There is really nothing more to it. If you want you can right-click on the uTorrent icon to limit the download speed. Note that you also upload as you download because you are sharing the file with other users even before it is finished downloading; BitTorrent works on an honour system of sorts so if you limit the upload speed too much your downloads will become slower. If you just use the default settings though, you shouldn't have to worry about it too much. Some files will take longer to download than others, it depends on the number of full copies (seeds) and partial copies (leechers) available online - these numbers are shown in brackets next to the filename in the list of queued items. The numbers outside brackets show how many of each you are currently connected to.

Besides House and Top Gear, there are only two things I watch on TV: documentaries and the news. TV has really gone downhill, and now I mostly only download documentaries (with BitTorrent) because Discovery, Animal Planet and National Geographic have really gotten bad now, it is all American Chopper, Man Against Nature, Super Weapons, Super Structures bla bla... no science whatsoever. I miss the mid 90s when they used to have Shark Week and things like that, half of what they show now is just like reality TV :frown: Fortunately, the older documentaries can be downloaded and BBC in England produce many excellent series.
 
Neal is also a House fan and he DVR's anything BBC that has anything to do with the ocean (and anything that suggests cephalopods). When his DVR starts to get filled, we do a night at the movies :lol:

Look at the stuff you got from the original owner as I think there is food in there. The fish should be hungry if it is anything like my clowns (different species but they are pigglets). The snails and hermits need left overs or a little flake food. If you have food for the fish, use it sparingly or you will have ammonia very quickly. If not, look for a MARINE flake food (I am not crazy about dried food but until you get the fish in more water volume, it is safer than shrimp or other frozen that it might eat). We feed our a combination of frozen Cyclop-eeze and mysis shrimp.
 
If you haven't seen BBC's series Planet Earth that is a really amazing selection of footage. Episodes 3 and 11 are about freshwater and saltwater respectively, but it absolutely deserves to be watched from episode 1 in sequence.

I also enjoyed Last Chance To See, another BBC series about various animals that were endangered 20 years ago; they came back to the same places to see how the animals were doing now (made last year). If your interest in nature is even broader, the 5-part BBC series Wonders of The Solar System is also very interesting. You can find them all on www.thepiratebay.org I'm sure.

There was indeed marine flake food and oh boy the fish loved it. Maybe he doesn't like the shrimp I got? I wasn't sure how much to put in so I just did a little at a time and waited for him to eat it all up before adding more. He ate 3 portions in the end, real fast.

The ammonia level today is a little over 2.0mg/l, not great, but I'm reasonably satisfied everything is ok in the buckets now. I put tiny pieces of left over shrimp in the crab bucket. The air pump, air stone, circulation pump are working, the fish has eaten, I've replaced the evaporated water with RO water each day, the temperature is about 28C, and the saltwater has been properly mixed. So hopefully I'm on the right track to learning how to look after these guys now!
 
Sounds like you are on a roll. Change out a quart or so (2 litres) every other day while you have the fish in the bucket. Try to use your siphon and vacuum up the bottom when you exchange the water. With no filtration, water can get bad very quickly.

I have a copy of the Planet Earth series. We watched it on TV and Neal's brother et al gave us the DVD's for Xmas. I have seen part of Last Chance to see but none of the Wonders of the Solar System.
 
Alright I'll give that a go after dinner - making pancakes :smile: The guy threw in an automatic siphon which is what I've been using, however the one from the aquarium shop (that I haven't opened yet) has a fat see-through tube in the middle and it says it's a gravel filter. I suppose that would be better for sucking up the debris?

Stupid question: who is Neal? :smile:

Last night Thomas randomly sent me YouTube footage of an octopus (a mimic octopus - I told him that was off the home aquarium menu) then started talking about setting up a freshwater aquarium. Told you :P
 
Ok, so everything has been ok the last couple of days, the fish really doesn't seem to eat much even though the sites I checked say to feed him at least twice a day. Most of the time he's just not interested.

Today I replaced a bit of the saltwater for RO water in his tank because the salinity was a bit high (from before), and checked the ammonia levels in both buckets. The one with the live rock, 3 crabs and snail is
 
Water changes are the best method of diluting the ammonia. Without a filter you will continue to experience the breakdown of food and waste and dilution is all you have in the current set up. Once the tank is set up, the LR (or at least the bacteria throughout the LR) will substantially control the ammonia. You can try putting a piece of LR in the bucket to get a little biological filtration but watch it closely as it will also provide a place for waste to hide and build. Also, be sure that some of your offered shrimp is not hiding. Shrimp produce ammonia very quickly and are sometimes used to cycle a tank.

We only feed our clowns daily so the twice a day recommendation is likely half the feeding at one time to help control waste. Ammonia in the water may be effecting him though so increasing the water changes my stimulate his appetite. You can put some (or all) of the snails in with the fish but if you also put in a crab, don't add more food to try to feed it. In such a small container, even scavenger waste adds to the bioload, perhaps more than what they break down.
 
I just changed 50% of the water for new saltwater and it really doesn't seem to make much or any difference to the ammonia, it's between about 2 and 2.5ppm now. I've put a large piece of live rock in there just now. I have only fed him shrimp twice and he hasnt eaten much of it, I vacuumed the remains out yesterday.

There is only one snail and I couldn't spot him just now so I will wait til he is visible then put him in the fish bucket, and leave the crabs where they are. I have only fed the crabs once.
 
Just keep diluting the water. It takes a long time to make dilution work and should give you a healthy respect on the need for regular maintenance :biggrin2:. When it is time for an octo, you should ALWAYS read 0.
 
Well regular maintenance I knew before I got the setup so that's fine :smile: I sure hope the ammonia level is easier to control in a bigger volume of water with all the clean-up guys in it though because this is a nightmare.
 
Ok, so I made a new batch of saltwater and to be honest I don't know how I'm ever going to get the ammonia to zero even in a tank because the saltwater has ammonia in it before I even use it. On this batch it is about 1 ppm give or take. Is there something in my house or the bucket that could be causing that? The RO water has 0 ppm ammonia and then I add the salt into the same bucket. It's Red Sea Pro Coral Salt, but two of the times I've measured a saltwater bucket it has had 0 ppm and other times like today it has some ammonia in. I'm totally baffled by that.
 
Also... there is 'orange goo' building up on the sides and bottom of the bucket, and on the circulation pump and carbon sock... i can't really get it out with the siphon. What is it and what should I do about it?
 
Hi Katy,
I kept a couple of fresh water tanks about 20 years ago, but the 52 gallon (200 L) bimac octopus tank I set up two years ago was my first marine tank, so I think what you're attempting is achievable if you do your homework and preparation very thoroughly. BTW, I'm also a software engineer.
I've just read this whole thread, and there are a few things I'd like to add:
djkaty;159953 said:
I sure hope the ammonia level is easier to control in a bigger volume of water with all the clean-up guys in it though because this is a nightmare.
From this statement, I suspect that you might not yet have a complete understanding of biological filtration (the "nitrogen cycle") which converts the very toxic ammonia from animal waste and uneaten food, into less toxic nitrite, then into only slightly toxic nitrate, and finally into non-toxic nitrogen gas. This conversion process is done by bacteria that live on the surface of live rock. The amount of ammonia that a biological filter can process per day is directly proportional to the number of bacteria (of the appropriate species) that live in the tank. The size of the bacteria population is directly proportional to the amount of surface area available for them to live on. What distinguishes "live rock" from "rock" is that live rock is very very porous, and so provides many times the surface area of a comparably sized smooth rock. The population of bacteria can also be limited by food supply (ammonia supply). In an aquarium you want the bacteria population to run out of food (ammonia) long before they run out of places to live (live rock surface).

The reason you are fighting high ammonia levels is NOT because you don't have enough water volume to dilute the ammonia, it is because you don't have enough live rock (surface area) to support a large enough population of bacteria to "eat" ammonia as fast as your fish produce it. You need more live rock in with your fish! The generally accepted minimum amount of live rock in a reef tank is 1 pound per gallon (120 grams/ liter) (weighed wet, in air). I would guess that you have less than 10% of that amount of live rock in with your fish, so of course you are seeing high ammonia levels.

I recommend that you find at least three separate long detailed articles that describe "the nitrogen cycle" and/or "biological filtration" in marine aquariums, and read them until you think you completely understand how it works. The best sources will be books on marine aquariums for beginners, followed by magazine articles dedicated to the nitrogen cycle. The final source can be forum posts, but since most aquarists only have a partial understanding, and forum posts tend to be brief, you might be misled a bit there. You'll really need a firm grasp on the nitrogen cycle as you "cycle" your tank, and make it ready to support the amount of waste your octopus will produce. Without that knowledge, you are likely to make a mistake that could kill your first octopus, cost you money, and dampen your enthusiasm.

To address your immediate situation:
In the US, there is a type of open topped round plastic tub (57 liters) with two rope handles that is used to hold ice and drinks for picnics and parties. It is extremely cheap ($6), strong, water proof, non-toxic, and available at any party supply store or Wal-Mart type store. I suggest that you get one, and transfer the contents of your two buckets to it. since you have an ammonia problem in the bucket that contains more rock and no fish, it is clear that one or more of the following things is/are happening:
1) You may be feeding too much. Fish will eat way too much if given the chance, so feed the minimum amount of flake food (ask the aquarium store guys), and stop feeding shrimp meat or other meat.
2) You may not own enough live rock. From the amount of animals you have, I think 4.5 kilos is the minimum you could get away with.
3) Some of the bacteria living on your live rock may have died during the move as a result of prolonged exposure to air, stagnant water (low oxygen), tap water (chlorine), or prolonged lack of ammonia (starvation). If so, the populations will come back given a constant food supply (high ammonia levels) and enough time.
4) Some of the plants and animals that inhabit the live rock may have died during the move because of abrupt changes in conditions. If so, this organic material "rots" in your tank, producing a lot of ammonia. Use the output of a pump to blow the loose dead stuff off of your live rock, and then pump your water through a filter sock to strain out the organic material and remove it before it rots.

You need enough water flowing over the surface of the live rock to keep the bacteria fed, and keep particles suspended in the water (so they can't settle on the rock or on the bottom) and eventually filtered out by your filter sock. Low flow can limit the population of bacteria too.

Enough about your ammonia problems, let's move on:
I the video (I only saw the most recent one) it looks like your filter sock is not being used properly. forgive me if that's not true, but it looks like your filter sock is simply draped over the edge of the bucket, like a tea-bag. The open end of the filter sock must be held (in a bracket of some kind) above the water line and directly over the water, not off to the side. Water must be pumped directly into the open end of the filter sock, using a U-shaped hose or tube from the pump, so that all of the water pumped into the filter sock is forced to pass through the sock to get back into the bucket. As water is continuously forced to move from the inside of the sock to the outside, passing through the wall of the sock, particles are left behind inside the sock, and in it's walls. Then, ideally every day or two, the sock is replaced with a clean one, and the dirty one is rinsed, bleached, rinsed, and dried so that in one or two days it can trade places with other sock.

I remember reading the results of an experiment that showed that making bubbles (using an air stone or skimmer) doesn't do much to promote CO2 exchange, and that gas exchange is best done by having a lot of flow at the surface. The bubbles breaking at the surface disturbs it a bit, and that disturbance helps, but keeping the pumps going strong is much more important. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, but that's the assumption I'm working under.

I hope some of that is helpful.
 
djkaty;159961 said:
Also... there is 'orange goo' building up on the sides and bottom of the bucket, and on the circulation pump and carbon sock... i can't really get it out with the siphon. What is it and what should I do about it?
Could be cyano bacteria, but that is usually bright red. It's also called "red slime algae". Look that up and see if it sounds like what you see.
 

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