Complete newbie requesting help with first octopus setup!

[djkaty]

LOL, yes I saw it coming too, my living room is absolutely jammed with stuff from today and it is starting to dawn on me now what I've let myself in for. But, I have to say now I'm starting to come to terms with the fact I ruined my tank for the time being I'm still really excited about everything. I realised immediately when I started reading about octopuses that this was gonna be a steep learning curve probably done the hard way, so I'm at least mentally prepared for learning and to spend a lot of time making mistakes while I get to grips with it.

So, I will just add this: on the way home I commented on how helpful Tonmo has been, you particularly D, and we both agreed that many communities are either elitist or perfectionist and would just tell a newcomer to do something else or assume failure or quick boredom when the complexities are realised, and that it was extremely nice that everyone has been helpful and nobody has been patronising. I really appreciate that you answer the thread every day And of course I am reading tons of web sites at the moment too on the subject.

 

[djkaty]

Here is a picture of the Eheim I took just now which I hope you can see:

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So you can tell me if it's just a pump or a filter :P

 

[DWhatley]

we both agreed that many communities are either elitist or perfectionist

Tony (AKA TONMO the forum owner and webmaster) would prevent this but there is no room for elitists in this hobby because it is just too new and we learn from sharing information. I have a hard time pacifying some newcomers answers that start with "we don't know" or "sometimes" or "usually" (and probably all answers should start this way). Where we, is not only the TONMO community but science in general. The ocean still hold lots of mysteries and cephs have only recently become an interest in modern times (they have come and gone as objects of study over the centuries (Very little was done in the US in the past. We don't know a lot more than is written in some of the first European studies. I had a terrific paper reference that was done 100 years ago but I can't find it, I have it marked SOMEWHERE and when I come across it again, I will try to remember to give you the reference).

That is a pump. A canister filter looks like its name, a round cylinder (green in the case of Eheim if I recall correctly).

 

[djkaty]

Okay, yes I figured it must be a pump because there's nothing to remove or clean really. It's 6:20am now so I really must nap for a bit but I will post some proper photos and a bunch of questions tomorrow no doubt hehe I just took the temperature and salinity, it is 81F and 1.028, both are a little high? There is no heater on it, I have a horrible feeling my house is going to be too warm for an octopus :/

The clownfish seemed really unhappy before, he was just bashing himself into rocks, I have no idea how fish behave so that kind of disturbed me, but now he seems quite happy, he is swimming around and going between the rocks and out again. Didn't want any food though, though I guess that's normal if he's stressed. The pump is making quite a bit of current in the bucket of course and I dont see any dial or setting on it, do I need to slow the flow down somehow?

 

[DWhatley]

With the rock all stacked in a bucket, I would not worry about too much flow there (too little would be more the concern) but if you can break it up a little rather than having it forcefully stream on one piece of LR, that would be better (just don't make it so that it can start putting water all over the room - this is NOT a humerous comment and happens to a lot of us during various DIY attempts at rechanneling water). No, they, unfortunately don't come with flow regulators and we cobble things together when we need to reduce flow (generally by splitting the flow or adding a valve). If the flow is too strong for the fish (you would see him fighting the current) then breaking up the direct flow as it exits the pump by placing something in front of the outlet would help.

What it the ambient in your house? Some of your heat will be coming from the pumps and will disapate more in the larger environment. 81 F is about as hot as you would want for a Caribbean species (and likely an Indonesian but I am not sure because I have always kept my tanks cooler until this year) but we are doing without air conditioning (standard in the southern US - where I live - but not so in the northern parts) this year and my tanks are exceeding that during the day. My little hatchlings are surviving it (some of my anemones are bleaching though) but I worry constantly. If you can find a clip on fan (the more plastic parts the better) to blow over the sump area this will help reduce the heat as much as 4 degrees F.

I think programmers are prone to the late night side of morning

 

[djkaty]

Well the fish (who I've temporarily named George, or Thomas did for reasons something to do with the ex-US President that I didn't really understand) seems happy now, I thought he was swimming against the current all the time but today I observed him swimming backwards and forwards pretty easily in all directions so I left that. I moved the pump in the other bucket so it wasnt pointing straight at one rock.

Quick question about water changing in these emergency 30 liter buckets (I think 1 gallon is about 4-4.5 liters; 1kg = 2.2lb): I bought 7kg of salt which is enough for 55 gallon tank fill it says; if I replace all the saltwater in both the temporary buckets every day the salt is only gonna last 3 or 4 days - and it's expensive too - is there a good compromise amount to replace each day?

Currently looking at getting the glass on 3rd August, maybe.

I guess the ambient temperature is also 81F because that's what the thermometer reads if I just leave it on the table. I had to turn the powerheads off before I took the temperature because it's some kind of combined thermometer and bob hydrometer, with mercury balls at the bottom in glass. So you put it in, wait for it to be still, read off the salinity then take it out and look at the red bar for the temperature.

Clip on fan sounds like a good idea. And no, I'm not normally up that late, slept very badly the last days because of excitement, and very badly last night from being unhappy about what happened and paranoid about the RO filter flooding my bathroom :P

 

[djkaty]

I figured making an idiot of myself was in order so here you can see everything I came home with yesterday and the state of the tank, sump and buckets with the livestock in:

(yes, I know, my voice is weird - it's always been like that, causes me hell sometimes)

 

[DWhatley]

OK, you need to get something RIGHT AWAY into the fish bucket to create CO2 exchange. Basically, the water surface needs to be being broken up with air bubbles to allow the CO2 to escape and air to replace it, bringing in oxygen.

You don't need to change all the water every day. You shouldn't need to change it at all (but wil have to top off for evaporation with fresh water) the rock water unless time extends beyond the expected and then only a couple of liters. The fish water could use a bit of a swap once a week but the air exchange is the MOST important thing or it will suffocate. I did not see an air pump and air stone in your collection. This is the easiest way to create the gas exchange (when your skimmer and sump are functional they will provide the exchange). The bad news is you are likely to have to do some walking, the good news is you should be able to find an inexpensive one. What you will need is an air pump, a piece of air line that reaches from the pump (where ever you put it) to the bottom of the bucket and an air stone (very inexpensive but will need to be purchased separately). You need to set this up very soon (like today). To help until you have an air pump, you can turn the circulating pump so that it is facing the surface and moving water from the bottom to the top and breaking the surface (if this does not cause a big mess). You can also do a 1 liter water change and pour the water from as high as you can manage without making a mess. This technique can be used with the existing water (that is removing and refilling with the same water) to help release some of the CO2 but the fish will be in jeapordy even now with out the gas exchange.

You might as well learn to use your test kits. Do you have one for ammonia (I forgot when you listed them if this was included)? Test the fish water daily. If you see any sign of ammonia then do a 50 percent saltwater water change but other wise, maybe 2 liters a week should be fine (again assuming you get an air exchange going for the fish).

You don't want to discard the filter socks. You will clean and reuse them. A weak solution of water and chlorine in a soaking bucket will work well. I turn mine inside out to soak them. After they soak clean (I usually let them soak a couple of days) you will need to be sure ALL the chlorine is removed so rinsing well soaking them in fresh water is the next step with a final rinse before using (they can dry out but don't have to). I use a little dechlorinator in my rinse water to be sure the chlorine is removed so you might pick up a bottle when you get an air pump.

Great job with the RO unit. You will get there, I have worse messes displayed in some of my tank build out threads

 

[djkaty]

Brilliant post once again I knew I would say stupid things in the video but that's partially why I made it, so you could tell me Ammonia tester I asked the guy for and it was the only thing he didn't have so I'll have to get one. I did actually change all the water in the LR bucket just now because I have no idea how long it's been since the seller did anything, he was lazy by his own admission and the state of the unsiphoned sump and overflow kind of showed that unless it gets filthy extremely fast. Was certainly an 'interesting' exercise emptying 7kg of salt, moving water between buckets and getting the salinity right without making too much mess. I have now come to accept that part of my living room floor will always be wet by default lol, and my hands will always hurt from salt even though I used rubber gloves.

The salinity was 1.026 and the pH was 8.3 (I learned to use the pH tester and they appear to be all the same: take 5mm into the syringe, squeeze into provided cup, add 5 drops of re-agent, swirl with hand gently for 10 seconds, compare colour to chart). I hope those values are ok. Never done anything like this in my life so it was all rather amusing in a way. Someone came in while I was mixing the saltwater, they asked me what the heck I was doing, there were hoses and pumps all over the floor so I told her I was starting a meth lab

Everything noted on filter socks and CO2 exchange. Unfortunately this means the fish has a big problem on its hands, not only is it 11pm now but I have literally $15 to last me the rest of the month having stocked up on food for myself and everything else; I actually quit smoking this month so I would have the money to feed and look after an octopus. There is literally no possibility for me to buy anything tomorrow at all. I will make the pump face the surface and do a 2 liter change from a height as you suggested (water being purified as we speak). Any other suggestions or is the poor thing going to die? What about the corals?

 

[djkaty]

Right I have turned the air pump so it faces the surface, I didnt put it right at the bottom, setting it a little further up created more bubbles and I have wedged the handle between two rocks so it is generating a lot of bubbles now, but also it's a hell of a wave machine so I hope the fish can stand it.

Vigorously poured a few liters of the existing water in from about a metre height (put a towel down, moved the power bar out of the way and prayed to God).

 

[DWhatley]

If you have lots of bubbles with just the pump, the fish should get enough O2 (fortunately, there is only one fish). Watch for it to breath heavily or gulp air from the surface but you sound like you've got it covered. If you should see signs of O2 deprivation, do a water change as it will add more O2 than reareating but I think you are good.

Odd things we use as excuses to quit smoking. If you are like me though, you will go back to it. I use the electronic cigarettes at the computer most of the time so my expense has not dropped but I am inhaling less CO2 and carbon monoxide.

I DID warn you, early on, about water on the floor Keep an eye on the floor around the fish bucket as the bubbles will get things wet a small splash at a time. Clean the surface with a damp FRESHWATER towel because the salt will, as mentioned, not evaporate and you will get what we call salt creep (evaporated salt left where it spalshes).

I am glad you have having fun with this. Some of it becomes a chore but mostly it remains interesting (I keep 8 full time tanks, as a few tiny ones and at least 2 feeder tanks running full time). Once you get it set up, be sure to look at it with a flash light at night as a whole new world will show up. You have to spend time looking but you will find things you do not see in the daytime.

 

[djkaty]

I have checked the fish several times today, somewhat out of novelty because I've never had a fish before and it is really strange to think of having a live fish in my living room; I never saw it gulping from the surface, most of the time it was near the bottom actually, it also took a little piece of thawed shrimp out of my hand and ate it straight away this morning which I took as a good sign (first time I ever fed a fish in my life, strange sensation).

Do the corals need any attention? What about the crabs and snail in the other bucket with the larger mass of live rock?

I'm also reasonably sure I'll get back to smoking and I usually smoke at my PC, in the living room, in the kitchen, everywhere except the bedroom basically, but I want a smoke free environment if I'm caring for animals so I will need to force myself to smoke outside if I resume (and it is _extremely_ cold in winter).

Next question then: tomorrow I would like to start cleaning the aquarium; I guess the sump since I don't want to mess with the glass area while it's cracked. The sump, the protein skimmer etc. What should I use for these tasks and can you give (or link to) an idiot's guide to cleaning them out?

I can easily see how it could become a chore but my general daily routine is quite undisciplined at the moment so some routine would do me good. I am much more inclined to keep my kitchen etc. in order if I know I need to provide for something other than myself. I tend to worry about pets and captive animals much more than I worry about myself. But I also think that I could enjoy the aquarium for a long time and I can see my interest expanding to keeping things besides octopuses too. I downloaded and watched a documentary tonight about keeping an aquarium. I was trying to find something interesting on saltwater but I could only find freshwater stuff (so if you have any tips on good shows to watch that would be great). It was interesting and I really don't think I would go to the bother if it wasn't holding my attention. I'm impatiently waiting for my two cephalopod books to arrive - Norway is the Jamaica of Europe, chilled out about everything

Thanks for holding my hand through this every day, I guess you don't normally do that. I'm soaking up the information as fast as I can and just the practice with the bits and pieces I had today without a working tank has been very useful.

 

[djkaty]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/album.php?aid=190891&id=816199476

Here you can see what I did with the lights as well as a few pics I'm sure you'll find entirely uninteresting :P (I turned the pump off for a minute to photograph the fish and turned it back on afterwards, don't worry!). The floor isn't quite even so the bookcases are leaning towards the wall, so it should be fairly stable. Heavy books on C++ and such used for anchoring

 

[djkaty]

Well good news, Thomas named the fish and has an emotional interest in keeping him alive (lol), so he loaned me the money to get an air pump, slange (erm, the tube thing that connects), an air stone and an ammonia tester. If this hobby is anything like computing, you can never have too many spare parts lying around so I will go and get those items just to be on the safe side.

 

[DWhatley]

Heavy books on C++ and such used for anchoring

Cleaning is an issue with what to use. NO soap. You can use chlorine but every bit must be gone before it is used (a bottle of dechlorinator should have been on my list of what to get so add it to your next month's shopping list). Household sponges are fine if they do not have soap (some of ours come with soap in the sponge) and have never been used. Any of the microfiber type cleaning cloths (again, not used for household cleaning) are fine. Your yellow scraper may be useful for where you can get to things. For the skimmer, clean out the main cylinder as best you can and don't worry about it. The top section will need cleaning on a semi-regular basis as it collects "skim mate" (protein that looks like green stinky mud) but the main cylinder is not an often cleaned item (others may argue a bit but I think they actually do better if you don't clean the primary cylinder - after this initial cleaning - since it is out of the water you do want to clean it this time). Acrylic surfaces should not be cleaned with abrasives (in your case, I think that is the skimmer and the sump only, I have several acrylic tanks) or metal scrapers. The sump is less of a concern and you may not care if it is scratched up from cleaning but it will become opaque with scratches if you use a metal scraper that is designed for glass.

You have food for the corals in your collection of included items, check the labels but feed very sparingly. Lighting is the big issue as most are photosynthetic. If you can't rig the light fixture to be on 8 hours (12 is better) then see if you can at least expose them to sun light most of the day.

Videos, there are many about the ocean that are excellent but I don't think I have ever watched one about aquariums. One that comes to mind is Octopus Volcano. I know it is on the net in both German and English and I will try to find the recent English link someone mentioned. I thought the German version was better than what was on TV here but the latest report was that the English version on the net was very good (I don't understand more than 10 words in German but had seen it in English first and could follow). Anything about octopuse from National Geographic tends to be good. We have off and on attempted to keep a list but the effort needs revitializing.

Some of the most interesting underwater videos are taken by divers. There is a very quick video of the well known cephalopod reasearchers shot (Roger Hanlon) that shows a terrific sequence of camoflauge behavior. There is a very sad diver short video with a cuttlefish and an a octopus (warning, not a happy ending). There are two recent videos from one of out members. The first is very sad (execllent catch on film though) but the second is a nice composite of his interaction with a group of octopuses he discovered last year.

You will also find a lot of interesting interaction short videos by members posted in the individual animal journals. I'll reference one of my last ones (Puddles was a macropus of some sort, nocturnal but was nearing the end and at a point that light was no longer a major run and hide issue when I took the video) but looking through the jounals and watching members videos would fill a lot of interesting time. The Journals and Photos section has stickies at the top titled List of Our Octopuese 2010, 2009 etc. The list contains links to the journals and names the species and you can learn a lot from reading through them if you have not already spent some time there.