A stubborn baby octopus

Aaron

Cuttlefish
Supporter
#1
I have a 2 month old octopus who was introduced to his tank a week ago. For the first few days he took bits of clam and muscle from a feeding stick. Then he suddenly rejected all food on a stick. For the next few days he happily ate live ghost shrimp that I put inside his den for him. Now he's refusing the ghost shrimp.

What do I feed my baby now? I'm considering using emerald crabs but that could become very expensive and besides - I'm not even sure he'll be able to kill and eat them .... What do you guys out there think about my putting a few snails near his den .... Any and all sugg
estions would be greatly appreciated ...
 

Nancy

Titanites
Staff member
Moderator
#2
Ghost shrimp are not the best food for him. Maybe he wants more variety.

Yes, you can try snails, also small blue legged crabs or red legged crabs are less expensive then emerald crabs. I would also try thawed frozen shrimp. You can buy the kind we eat and cut it into smaller pieces.

Nancy
 

cuttlegirl

Colossal Squid
Supporter
Registered
#3
Just to add to Nancy's reply... You want to make sure that the shrimp is raw (gray in color), not cooked (red or pink in color). You could also try bits of raw scallop.
 

monty

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Supporter
#4
one thing that can cause a loss of appetite is water problems, have you tested your water chemistry since this happened? Sometimes adding a cephalopod causes a "mini cycle" even in an established tank, so if your water parameters aren't perfect, you might want to do a partial water change and see if the octo's appetite improves.
 

DrBatty

GPO
Supporter
#5
I don't know if this is the best thread to bring this up, but I have to mention something, as I know many of us like to use raw "human grade" shrimp.
I told my aquarium guys that I sometimes use raw "human grade" seafood for my fish/octo stuff and he said it was very very bad to do - can make your aqua pets sick and even kill them. I never noticed a change in my little guys [other than the fact that they LOVE the stuff!], but better safe than sorry... :hmm:
The reason for this is something in the way the seafood is mass-prepared....a chemical or bacterial thing, I believe. He referenced an article about it - I'll see if I can hunt it down.
 

DWhatley

Cthulhu
Staff member
Moderator
#6
DrBatty,
I saw something recently about Indo-China seafood (I think it was shrimp) being refused in a number of countries (Japan being one of them) because of the antibiotic content, that may be what he was referring to but I don't think US shrimp are treated. I could be badly mistaken here as it may depend upon where and by whom the shrimp are caught and packed. It would be great if you can find the atricle.
 

DWhatley

Cthulhu
Staff member
Moderator
#7
Aaron,

Paul Sachs:

http://www.aquaculturestore.com/

has been just great about getting me very small fiddlers and some of my Mercatoris babies (well, 7 months now but small octos) will happily eat them. They are cheaper than mithrax and he collects them fresh. If you order from him leave a note on Paypal that you want the smallest he has for a baby Octo, he will understand :smile:.

I suggest removing the large claw from the males by holding the claw and placing the crab in the water. It will drop the claw to escape naturally and I have found the method much perferable to cutting the tips or manually removing it.
 

Nancy

Titanites
Staff member
Moderator
#8
It's hard to find out about these things. I would trust US shrimp more than imported.

I have always tried to buy shrimp from a place where I could find out how the shrimp was handled and whether it was treated. I have a good fishmarket nearby that brings in Guif shrimp by air overnight (we're about 200 miles from the Gulf of Mexico). Even through it arrives in less than one day, it is frozen. I found this to be very good.

Whole Foods does not treat any of their fresh or frozen shrimp (or other seafood).

Nancy
 

shipposhack

Haliphron Atlanticus
Registered
#9
DrBatty;103000 said:
I don't know if this is the best thread to bring this up, but I have to mention something, as I know many of us like to use raw "human grade" shrimp.
I told my aquarium guys that I sometimes use raw "human grade" seafood for my fish/octo stuff and he said it was very very bad to do - can make your aqua pets sick and even kill them. I never noticed a change in my little guys [other than the fact that they LOVE the stuff!], but better safe than sorry... :hmm:
The reason for this is something in the way the seafood is mass-prepared....a chemical or bacterial thing, I believe. He referenced an article about it - I'll see if I can hunt it down.
When you buy frozen from the store you want to make sure it is 'organic' in way. Look at the ingredients and all you want them to say is "raw tiger shrimp", or the like. Some may have a preservative too, which I doubt will kill anything, but straight up raw is always better. Your best bet for this is to go to a seafood market, or the fresh seafood section at your grocer. They usually won't have preservatives or anything else in them because people usually eat them right away when they buy from there.
 

DWhatley

Cthulhu
Staff member
Moderator
#10
Shipposhack,
Unfortunately, what you recommend would have been unquestionable 5 years ago. With our high imports and newest chemical treatments, this is no longer a guaranteed safe approach. The consumer has started demanding to know where food comes from and many stores (Walmart's fish department for one strangely enough) are labling the origination of their fresh foods. But also like Walmart, much of the "fresh" is actually thawed frozen and may have been exposed to antibiotics or other drugs.
 

DrBatty

GPO
Supporter
#11
Heh, perhaps I opened a whole new can of worms!
Well, i couldn't find the guy who told me the info above when I went to the LFS over the weekend, but I did talk to someone equally if not more knowledgeable about this topic.
Summary: Yes it is true that the way some human grade seafood is prepared and kept can be detrimental to your ceph/fishies' health if fed to them. This is due [as many of you have speculated] to the fact that a LOT of our stuff is imported and regulations vary from place to place. However, he emphasized that the majority of the problems come from bacterial-type issues and can be resolved by re-freezing prior to feeding. He also said of course, to use your discretion, stay away from any product that looked questionable, etc etc - nothing we didn't already practice, I'd hope! He still did not recommend it as a daily staple, but the risk is considerably lessened simply by freezing it. I'll continue looking for the article, though....just to get more info. :smile:
 

Vonsamhain

Cuttlefish
Registered
#12
I think that it was in reference to anti-biotics and not bacteria themselves. Anti-biotics found in commercial grade foods would not be effected by freezing. Most antibiotics are kept at negative temps just to keep them stable over periods of time. So, freezing would not do much of anything in that respect.

However, there are in fact reputable food distributors still available. Someone in this thread mentioned whole foods for example. That company invests a good amount of time, effort and money into ensuring that the food they sell is exactly what they claim it to be. They pride themselves on organic food, and quite honestly the price reflects that as well. I have raised some oddball species on frozen thawed commercial grade seafood over the last 20 years. One freshwater puffer named Boo (Mbu freshwateer puffer BTW)in particular is over 6 years old and one of the oldest/healthiest of his species on record.

One thing that I have learned a great deal about cold blooded animals over the last 30 years is that the most common source of premature death is related to overfeeding. People (especially) in the US have adopted this habit of feeding their pets like they do themselves. In some animals (reptiles, fish, insects) this manifests itself in captive overfeeding by several orders of magnitude over their natural diets. I've seen a number of hobiests that have yearling animals that are of 2-3 times the size they would normaly be in the natural environment. Especially in reptiles.


...sorry, got carried away here. :/
 

Aaron

Cuttlefish
Supporter
#13
I just want to report that my baby octopus did indeed die ... he refused to eat for 10 days - despite perfect water conditions and offers of various types of live or frozen food. I appreciate everyone's assistance and I'm now considering ordering a different species, - possible an "Indo Pacific" from Live Aquaria.com. I appreciate everyone's advice ... Wish me luck with a new one. Aaron
 

cuttlegirl

Colossal Squid
Supporter
Registered
#14
So sorry to hear about your little guy... :sad: Could you give us some details about your tank? How big is it? How long has it been set up? What type of filtration is in your tank? I know you mentioned that you have a UV sterilizer on this tank. UV sterilizers are not usually recommended for cephalopods.
 

Aaron

Cuttlefish
Supporter
#15
Thank you for your response ..... The tank is 25 gallons - certainly big enough for a 2" baby .... It was established over 7 months ago and has a stable, functional bio filter... In addition I have a protein skimmer and a cannister filter filled with carbon and polyester floss. The UV sterilizer was never used while I had this octopus ....
 

monty

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Supporter
#16
RIP :angelpus: sorry to hear it, and good job trying to hard to help. Good luck with your next octo.
 

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