Ziggy - Macropus ?

[Teacher Kim]

I think you might be right! I was watching her this morning and she doesn't seem to have a pair of eye spots, just random spots that are hard to see. The word "plain" would definitely fit her coloration. (Like anything about an octopus could be considered plain! lol) So far I haven't seen any bold patterns. When she is out, she is always a solid brown and when she does change color it is stays pretty solid.

I read excerpt. Interesting! Am having trouble finding out how big it will get. Also, how did an octopus from Australia wind up in New York with info saying it was from Indonesia? lol!! Does this type of thing happen often? Is this species unusual to see? Pics and info seem to be harder to find than on the other species I was looking up. Maybe it is not as popular because it comes out mostly at night? Sorry for the questions, I just want to be able to make good decissions regarding it's care.

If for some strange reason it did turn out to be a species that gets pretty big, or one that is more unusual, I would be willing to donate it to an appropriate person/place if one was reasonably close by and then find one better suited for a beginner! She is really cool, but I work with many kinds of animals and I am all about what is best for them and for research about them!

 

[DWhatley]

Geography is not the best topic for most of us in the US If you will look at Indonesia you will see that the area is #1 large and #2 not separated from Australian waters by any kind of land mass so many of the species found in the Philippines (where we see a lot of the imported animals originate), Indonesia and Northern AU are the same.

We have seen other, smaller animals in the Macropus complex but this one (if my guess is correct) is somewhat larger than the most common that show up. It is not an exotic species but not often shipped to the pet trade. Again, if my guess is correct you can expect about a 3" mantle with an individual arm length of about 14" or about the size of the Caribbean O. briareus.

 

[Teacher Kim]

Great! How interesting! I'm glad to know she is one that we can keep!! I really like her, although I'm not sure that she likes me at all! She almost always has a pointed cone head! lol! So, what size and shape tank do you prefer for your octopuses? She is definitely healthy and eating so am ready to set up something bigger and permanent! Also, I just bought 60 marine shrimp from "Reefs to Go". They will be here in the morning. So far she has been eating hermit crabs. Am hoping she will like the shrimp better!

I will look for information on this site about females and egg laying, just in case I need it. Is there anything in particular that I might look for in the way of changes in her color, etc... or behavior that might give me a signal that she could be going to lay eggs? Any other tips? I'd rather be too prepared than not prepared enough!! I can't thank you enough for you time and knowledge! I really appreciate it! I'm just amazed at her behavior and I think I'm hooked and will have to replace her when she passes one day. And now I will have some great resources to help me! Thanks again!!

 

[DWhatley]

If we assume (and please know this is a BIG assumption) that she will be about the size of O. briareus then something in the 65 gallon range with a sump should be comfortable. This kind of set up will give you more flexibility in the future as well. They only live about a year (maybe 18 months for some of the larger ones). This one is not new born and you will not find many of any species that young. On occasion we see hatchling of large egg species available but they are not easy to raise so something in the 3-6 month range is much more likely to survive. One of the collectors in FL is getting rather good at finding young O. briareus so I am hoping for an on-going source of young ones for this species.

There is a whole subforum, Raising Octopus from Eggs under octopus care you can browse for trying to raise hatchlings. Unfortunately there are no successes with small egg species and almost all young in the Macropus complex have a palegic stage. As far as identifying when this is about to happen (assuming this on is typical of other species), you will likely see a major positive change in appetite and activity followed by the securing of either her current den or a new den. Securing the den will likely involve moving rocks. building a barrier and possibly creating a door. Next she will enter the den and stop coming out. She may accept a little food in the beginning but will eventually stop eating. It does not hurt to continue to try to feed. She will likely live just long enough for the eggs to hatch and will tend them with her arms, siphon and even her mantle, keeping them clean and in motion. After the hatching she may exit her den and wander aimlessly for a day or so (still not eating) and you will notice that the mantle seems hard to control and kind of flops. Her color will be very dull but she may respond to gentle petting. Then she will die. When mine appear too weak to defend themselves from the clean-up crew, I move them to a breeder net for their last day(s).

 

[Teacher Kim]

Again, great information and helpful! How sad though, when the octopuses get to the end of their lives. But the cycle of life goes on.... So, I have tried to raise baby sea horses before, but of course with no real luck. If she does lay eggs and they turn out to be fertile, I will try my best to keep them alive as long as possible.

Meanwhile, I have already made a call to my lfs to see what they have in the way of used tanks. ( l like to recycle things and to build my own set ups. One of my set ups was a 125 with a 55 gallon sump that I built myself! I also have a 50 gallon with a plennium (sp?) filter system that I constructed!) I have been looking for pics of octopus tanks, but mostly see the octopus, not what the tank looks like. Would love to see a pic of your tank or tanks! I couldn't find any on the site. Could you maybe direct me to the right area to see tank pics, or post a pic of your tank? Thanks a bunch!

 

[DWhatley]

Try our Tank Talk forum At the top you will see a sticky (in green) titled Tank Buildouts. This thread has a list of tank sizes and links to build out journals.

I would consider not using the plennium as digging is not uncommon. Most of these set ups don't require you use them. If it is not possible to eliminate it or you want to use it anyway I don't think it will be a big deal but we eliminated the one in one of our used tanks because of this concern.

 

[Teacher Kim]

Got it, no plennium! (I take direction well! lol) I saw a pic of the tank you built on shelf on wall! Way cool! Was laughing because posts are so much like at my house too! Addition got built, but my husband never put floor down in hall or doors on bathroom cabinets! I have also learned how to do much on my own! He loves to look at my tanks, but has no idea how to take care of one! Am offf to shop in a few to check out options. Will keep you posted! Nice to have people with same interest to talk to!

 

[Teacher Kim]

Update on School Octopus!

Just wanted to let you know that our school octopus, Ziggy, (Sorry, I think we stole someone elses name!) is doing really well! She's definitely a night octo, but is often out in the morning for a bit, so kids get to see her fairly often.

She's definitely eating hermit crabs and the live marine shore shrimp I got for her, but I'd love to find something I can freeze that she will eat. I have tried frozen krill, clams and one silverside. No luck. I read in the feeding section that crab claws might be a good choice. The warf in Monterey is close by, so I thought of heading over there to look for some. Anything else I might want to look for while there? Thanks!

 

[Teacher Kim]

Future TONMO members with octopus tank! (We are working on a larger tank for her... and future octos!)

 

[GPO87]

So glad that Ziggy is doing well! Keep up the reports! I wish that my classroom had an octo tank when I was that age.

 

[DWhatley]

Kim,
Any kind of crab claws seem to work VERY well. I scavange them from our local Asian markets and don't even mind not asking for a discount because it is so much less expensive and so much better for the octopuses. These can be frozen (they need to be fresh - we just hunt the tanks for loose ones and be sure they don't smell then freeze them).

Thawed, frozen table shrimp is another option. We have found that if they refuse a peeled shrimp, offer with shell on. Usually they will eventually take it peeled (helping with tank mess) but I have one that STILL won't touch it unless the shell is there.

For alternate live food, any small crab (pinchers disabled - easy to do by removing one side or clipping the tips depending on the species). Fiddler crabs are considered a universal food and I don't know of a species yet that refuses them but any crab smaller than the mantle will be excellent nutritionally and accepted. Crabs don't freeze all that well but I have frozen newly dead ones as a backup.

For an occasional treat (and, again usually accepted by all species), crawdad (crawfish) can be given live but be sure it is taken quickly as they don't live in saltwater long and you don't want to foul the tank. The tails and claws (not much meat there though) can be frozen but the bodies can contaminate the meat so not the whole animal. Since these are freshwater animals, they should only be given as a change of diet as the types of fats are not suitable for every day nutrition but close enough for this kind of feeding and providing a variety.

I avoid giving fish. They will eat them to some extent in the wild but feeding studies have determined that they don't do well on a fish only diet. If you want to try fish as an occasional alternate, use food grade saltwater or frozen that is intended for feeding. Live aquarium fish are often treated with copper by the wholesaler and/or the fish store. Copper is deadly to all inverts and octopuses are especially sensitive to even small amounts.

Mollusks are usually accepted. I have tried oysters, mussels and clams and only recommend clams as the other two make a mess. Live clams from your seafood shop work but I usually put them in a bucket of tank water for 24 hours to make sure they will survive and to help clean out whatever pollutants they may come with. Be sure the bucket has high sides or you will find a dry bucket in the morning with all the water on the outside You can put in several and they will (minimally) work as tank cleaners until eaten. They can live for a long time in a tank and I have never had to worry about them polluting.

Raw scallop can be offered, however, this food is odd. The oddity may have something to do with it being frozen but I have had octos eat exactly one scallop and then totally refuse them afterwards. Tummy ache? I have no clue but Carol experienced the same behavior.

Abelone, I have tried frozen and freshly dead (one I tried in my non-octo tank that did not survive) and neither has been accepted by any of the ones I have kept.

 

[Teacher Kim]

Great ideas! Thanks! The most interesting thing is the fact that many salt water fish have been treated with copper! I was just about to get a couple of damsels, thinking it would give the kids something to look at until she ate them! So glad you thought to mention that part!

Will go look for crab claws and live clams at the warf asap. As far as the fiddler crabs go, are there both fresh and salt water ones? My lfs seems to only carry fresh water, but I thought I saw where someone mentioned marine ones too. Do you get them from any place specific? thanks!

 

[DWhatley]

Technically I believe they are land crabs with some oddities. Fiddlers live in saltwater environments but actually breath air from the surface so they must be able to climb above the water (don't confuse them with hermit crabs, there are both fresh and saltwater varieties of these). I find they do better in full saltwater with places to climb out and fine sand to look for food. The ones I get come from FL or South GA and originate in full saltwater but they have been kept in fresh, brackish and full salt successfully. Some people provide a simple pool for them and sand for most of the habitat but my holding tanks have a couple of inches of full salt and an island of sand with surrounding lava rock where I put their food.

Fish are not a good idea to keep with octopuses even if copper is not an issue. Damsels in particular can be very territorial and harass an octopus. Fish of any kind can be a concern for nipping, opening the potential for infection. In stead you might look for serpent or brittle stars that the kids can look for in the tank. There are quite a variety from black and white striped (harlequin) to red (my favorite). All but the green ones are good clean up and octo safe. For some reason the greens eventually become quite aggressive. For years I was sure there were two types as mine was anything but. However, eventually he had to have his own tank as he would attack almost anything in the tank with him.

Pencil urchins are fine but don't move around a lot.

Some octopuses will tolerate (or the shrimp avoid well) peppermint shrimp. However, you would have better success if the shrimp inhabited the tank before the octopus so I would wait until this one passes on before trying a pair. I only keep a pair as more have been known to pack and become aggressive. Two seem to do fine without killing each other or packing to attack other things. Like many shrimp, peppermint shrimp are both male and female. Two are needed to produce offspring and they are often born at night but it still might be interesting to see the eggs growing on the shrimp. Peppermint shrimp will easily spawn in an aquarium but survival of the hatchlings is nil. They work well to control some forms of aiptasia.

 

[Teacher Kim]

Just got back from fish market right down the street! I bought 4 live clams, each about 3" in size. Have them in a bucket of salt water and will check them in the morning. I also bought a fresh peice of prawn and brought it home to test. I cut a small piece off and offered it to her and she jumped on it!! I'm assuming that she's going to eat it! lol! She took it back into her den. I will check later to see what's left! 4 clams and 1 prawn cost me like $2.50! Great advice! Thanks!

I like the idea of some different starfish in the tank for the kids to look at and talk about! Great for the idea of same and different! I thought the octopus would eat them, which would be OK if it happened eventually, but wouldn't want to spend too much on them! I did put 1 chocolate chip starfish in already and so far it's still alive!

This is kinda off topic and mostly for "D"... or anyone else with experience. Am wondering where would be an acceptable area to ask you a couple of questions about seahorses? lol! Thanks!!

 

[DWhatley]

Unfortunately, a chocolate chip is probably one of the worst and most aggressive starfish to put in a tank. It is not likely to hurt the octopus but it might hurt anything else you put in there, be sure it is well fed. Personally, I would remove it and see if your LSF will trade for something.

Serpent stars are a far better alternative for any tank. Many are meat eaters so they will do a lot of clean up in crevices but they lack the ability to do much harm and survive well in aquariums. Many other star either die very easily or are predatory. We have an anticdotal occurrence that suggest a Bahama star may be clever enough to trap and kill at least a small octo. Like many starfish they can trap their prey and then push their stomachs outside their body to consume the animal. As mentioned, the incident is anticdotal and the octopus may have died before it started to be consumed but it had not shown evidence of declining health.

PM me with your seahorse questions. I have not kept them for many years but there are a couple of good sites I can recommend.