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which octo can go in a 29g aquarium?

I just read a post earlier about a coral banded shrimp that was mean and killed a fish and some other things in the tank. I am not sure if this is typical though D said that it wasnt. At one point or another even if they dont bug the octopus the octopus will eat them.
 
SabrinaR;174286 said:
I just read a post earlier about a coral banded shrimp that was mean and killed a fish and some other things in the tank. I am not sure if this is typical though D said that it wasnt. At one point or another even if they dont bug the octopus the octopus will eat them.

No that's not typical, and I think thats the intention.
 
Is this a case where the bandids are not removable? They are such interesting little guys that it seem a real shame to use them as food. The only caveate is size. As with most preditors, the larger animal wins and this includes octopuses (as Roy unintentionally demonstrated with a blue ring and a mantis shirmp in his infamous video several years ago). I asked Mucktopus if she saw any signs of octos allowing grooming while she was studying the aculeatus. She answered that their team never saw this but that she had heard reports of cleaner fish interacting with O. cyanea. The bandids are so aggressive in their hunt for parasites that I would not expect a second chance at explaining what it was trying to do (and parasites on octopuses are found on the inside, not the outside).
 
just ordered some stuff. since ordering the 29g was pointless i ordered the 14 g. the extra money allowed me to buy a tunze protein skimmer and a submersible red led light. it will get here monday im pretty excited! my lfs says they can get me joubini, even though its most likely mercatoris. so i will order through them in a few months after the tank cycles.
question: is there anyway to speed up the cycling process, for this size tank how long should i cycle. 20lbs ls 10 lbs lr
 
DWhatley;174295 said:
Is this a case where the bandids are not removable? They are such interesting little guys that it seem a real shame to use them as food. The only caveate is size. As with most preditors, the larger animal wins and this includes octopuses (as Roy unintentionally demonstrated with a blue ring and a mantis shirmp in his infamous video several years ago). I asked Mucktopus if she saw any signs of octos allowing grooming while she was studying the aculeatus. She answered that their team never saw this but that she had heard reports of cleaner fish interacting with O. cyanea. The bandids are so aggressive in their hunt for parasites that I would not expect a second chance at explaining what it was trying to do (and parasites on octopuses are found on the inside, not the outside).

is there a shrimp or crab that the merc can eat that looks cool. i also will have lots of blue leg hermts in there and maybe a starfish of some sort. ive decided to do one coral and thats my red mushroom but if it looks like its causing problems then i will remove
 
chandlerr2scott;174349 said:
is there a shrimp or crab that the merc can eat that looks cool. i also will have lots of blue leg hermts in there and maybe a starfish of some sort. ive decided to do one coral and thats my red mushroom but if it looks like its causing problems then i will remove

I don't understand why you would want prey items that 'look cool'. They will not last long in the tank, and if your animal is an aggressive hunter, you may only get to see it for a few minutes before it's ripped to pieces. The mushrooms will not be an issue so long as they don't die off in mass numbers. They spread like wild fire and do not need a whole lot of light so it's a nice choice. As for lighting, I would suggest looking into the TrueLumen "Rose/Pink" LED stips from Current USA. I have one and I think it would bring out more color than just a regular red LED though I would use it as an accent light along with the red.
 
skywindsurfer;174351 said:
I don't understand why you would want prey items that 'look cool'. They will not last long in the tank, and if your animal is an aggressive hunter, you may only get to see it for a few minutes before it's ripped to pieces. The mushrooms will not be an issue so long as they don't die off in mass numbers. They spread like wild fire and do not need a whole lot of light so it's a nice choice. As for lighting, I would suggest looking into the TrueLumen "Rose/Pink" LED stips from Current USA. I have one and I think it would bring out more color than just a regular red LED though I would use it as an accent light along with the red.

first off it is my preference that the prey items look cool. so please if you can tell me whether species like peppermints can be food or something than tell me. im trying to get help, not get questioned on why i like shrimp that look cool. thats kinda rude and not necassary.

from my experience there is no way to specifically predict cycling time lengths and that each tank is different. im gonna give it 2 months maybe 3.
 
You will not likely be please with my repsonse but part of my role here is to do my best at getting people started on a successful octo keeping journey. There is no question you are correct when you mention that there is no way to predict cycling time but incorrect when thinking shortening the time belongs with that thought. If anything going beyond the minimum would fit the statement better. The goal of a three month cycle is to fully establish an environment. Checking water parameters to reach the initial 0 detectable ammonia and nitrites is only the beginning of creating an established biological filter. Once you are at that point, then you need to grow the bacteria to accomodate the waste and lost food production created by an octopus. My goal when encouraging new keepers to be patient is to prevent new tank syndrome, frustration, early loss of an animal and loss of money.

Everyone has their own idea of cool. CramersCaribbeanCritters often has small crabs that are acceptable food. I found them interesting but CaptFish found them ugly. I am likely to find any critter interesting though. You can put a peppermint shrimp in with a merc and it may or may not survive. I would recommend putting only one of this species in the tank though as they can pack and pick on animals in multiples. If your merc acclimates to you well, you will be able to hand feed it with a feeding stick or pipette using thawed frozen or freshly killed shrimp (shore shrimp are usually favored but the larger frozen mysis are also usually accepted). There are varying reports on the consumption of hermits. Most of my animals ignored them but other have reported success using them as food. I have found the blue leggs in particular to be unwise to keep with small snails so if you use these I would not include snails as an intended cleanup crew. Red leg hermits don't seem to be as aggressive with the snails and add a bit of color to the tank.

I keep red mushrooms with my octos so, unless it is an unusual species, it should be fine.
 
My intentions were not to be rude. But the more glamorous the animal the more expensive it may get when ordinary prey items will be cheaper. By all means feed it what you like, it's your animal, your money. I just wanted to understand why you are wanting to feed your octopus potentially expensive crustacea. I have not heard of anyone doing that before.
 
DWhatley;174358 said:
You will not likely be please with my repsonse but part of my role here is to do my best at getting people started on a successful octo keeping journey. There is no question you are correct when you mention that there is no way to predict cycling time but incorrect when thinking shortening the time belongs with that thought. If anything going beyond the minimum would fit the statement better. The goal of a three month cycle is to fully establish an environment. Checking water parameters to reach the initial 0 detectable ammonia and nitrites is only the beginning of creating an established biological filter. Once you are at that point, then you need to grow the bacteria to accomodate the waste and lost food production created by an octopus. My goal when encouraging new keepers to be patient is to prevent new tank syndrome, frustration, early loss of an animal and loss of money.

Everyone has their own idea of cool. CramersCaribbeanCritters often has small crabs that are acceptable food. I found them interesting but CaptFish found them ugly. I am likely to find any critter interesting though. You can put a peppermint shrimp in with a merc and it may or may not survive. I would recommend putting only one of this species in the tank though as they can pack and pick on animals in multiples. If your merc acclimates to you well, you will be able to hand feed it with a feeding stick or pipette using thawed frozen or freshly killed shrimp (shore shrimp are usually favored but the larger frozen mysis are also usually accepted). There are varying reports on the consumption of hermits. Most of my animals ignored them but other have reported success using them as food. I have found the blue leggs in particular to be unwise to keep with small snails so if you use these I would not include snails as an intended cleanup crew. Red leg hermits don't seem to be as aggressive with the snails and add a bit of color to the tank.

I keep red mushrooms with my octos so, unless it is an unusual species, it should be fine.

haha alright, i guess patience pays off in the end. my lfs has red legged hermits readily available so i will just pick some up after tank has cycled. and to skywindsurfer my response was very childish and defensive but i have a tab at my lfs where i gave them corals and baby h.erectus seahorses. so money on the living animal side of the equation is unlimited
 
Once you see 0 ammonia and nitrites, that IS the time to start adding your clean up crew and any thing you can feed so that you will continue to mature the tank. It is the primary residence that need to wait. This is the point where people who use live fish (I don't and don't recommend it) buy cheap "cycle" fish. I have never found it necessary or desireable to use live fish to cycle a tank. This is somewhat dependent upon the quality of the live rock but there are a number of other ways to build bacteria. What you don't want to do is just let it sit for the three months without adding a bioload. Start with your hermits (around 1 month) and be sure to feed regularly then as you continue to see 0 ammonia and nitrites add a serpent start (they have a good appetite, are entertaining and can often be hand fed if you work with them even though they are shy at first, dinner time brings them out once they know the routine). A pencil urchin could come in here when you start to see algae on the rocks and can remain in the tank.
 
Not all dwarf octos are lame!!! Don't discount an O. joubini! I have had a few mercs and I agree that the are kind of boring. Shy and nocturnal and not seen out until late. I have had 2 joubinis though, and wish I could get a younger one sometime. The first one I had was actually brooding the majority of the time I had her, and I didn't realize it until the end! She kept her den open, watched me the whole time and in the beginning even reached out from her den toward my finger a couple of times. I really wish I could have had her from a much younger time of her life! Maybe it was just particular to her, but any brooding female who is THAT interactive had to have been cool in her prime! The other one, Take 2, I got in Dec. from Tom (at Tom's Caribbean) mislabeled as a briareus. That one had a weird skin condition, but still was out in much lighter conditions than a merc and nowhere as shy. Probably crepuscular, not really nocturnal.

I know it's hard to be patient during cycling, but it is SO worth it. If you have a chance to try a joubini, you can have just as much fun as you would with an aculeatus! They really aren't that small (compared to the mercs and boki I had, they are good sized), look just like a small briareus (as they are often confused for) and are worth the wait!!!
 
sedna;174401 said:
Not all dwarf octos are lame!!! Don't discount an O. joubini! I have had a few mercs and I agree that the are kind of boring. Shy and nocturnal and not seen out until late. I have had 2 joubinis though, and wish I could get a younger one sometime. The first one I had was actually brooding the majority of the time I had her, and I didn't realize it until the end! She kept her den open, watched me the whole time and in the beginning even reached out from her den toward my finger a couple of times. I really wish I could have had her from a much younger time of her life! Maybe it was just particular to her, but any brooding female who is THAT interactive had to have been cool in her prime! The other one, Take 2, I got in Dec. from Tom (at Tom's Caribbean) mislabeled as a briareus. That one had a weird skin condition, but still was out in much lighter conditions than a merc and nowhere as shy. Probably crepuscular, not really nocturnal.

I know it's hard to be patient during cycling, but it is SO worth it. If you have a chance to try a joubini, you can have just as much fun as you would with an aculeatus! They really aren't that small (compared to the mercs and boki I had, they are good sized), look just like a small briareus (as they are often confused for) and are worth the wait!!!

wow, thanks this makes me twice as excited. how large do they get exactly and where could i buy one. how much do they cost. now if they are mistaken for briareus and merc then how can i know what i am getting?
 
DWhatley;174395 said:
Once you see 0 ammonia and nitrites, that IS the time to start adding your clean up crew and any thing you can feed so that you will continue to mature the tank. It is the primary residence that need to wait. This is the point where people who use live fish (I don't and don't recommend it) buy cheap "cycle" fish. I have never found it necessary or desireable to use live fish to cycle a tank. This is somewhat dependent upon the quality of the live rock but there are a number of other ways to build bacteria. What you don't want to do is just let it sit for the three months without adding a bioload. Start with your hermits (around 1 month) and be sure to feed regularly then as you continue to see 0 ammonia and nitrites add a serpent start (they have a good appetite, are entertaining and can often be hand fed if you work with them even though they are shy at first, dinner time brings them out once they know the routine). A pencil urchin could come in here when you start to see algae on the rocks and can remain in the tank.

okay, i have never tried it this way but this is definitely very interesting take. it makes sense. so i pretty much need to base it on my ammonia and nitrites, add cleanup crew wait for tank to even out add starfish wait for tank to even out add urchin wait for tank to even out then add the glorious and beautiful octopus. never been this excited
 

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