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which octo can go in a 29g aquarium?

chandlerr2scott

Cuttlefish
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#1
ive spent hours the last three weeks reading through journals and threads on this site. after reading i really dont want to get a merc or a joubini as they are never seen in a tank and are very shy. i was looking at the dwarf version of the aculeatus called the abdobus(spelling?)
its going to be a 29 gallon biocube with 20 lbs LR and 20 lbs live sand. stock everything except i will add a protein skimmer.
anysuggestions on something bigger than a merc and smaller than aculeatus:confused:
any help will be very appreciated
 

DWhatley

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#2
Unfortunately the small sized animal that sometimes comes from Live Aquaria (Roy has clarified that they don't appear to be O. abaculus) only appear a once a year or so and are still a nocturnal species. I really wish I could get an ID on Monty because whatever he is would be ideal if they happen to be a large egg species. Unfortunately, he is the only one we have ever had on TONMO and I have only seen a picture of possibly one other. So, sadly, the answer is no, there is not another safe species of dwarf that is commonly available.
 

chandlerr2scott

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#3
DWhatley;174240 said:
Unfortunately the small sized animal that sometimes comes from Live Aquaria (Roy has clarified that they don't appear to be O. abaculus) only appear a once a year or so and are still a nocturnal species. I really wish I could get an ID on Monty because whatever he is would be ideal if they happen to be a large egg species. Unfortunately, he is the only one we have ever had on TONMO and I have only seen a picture of possibly one other. So, sadly, the answer is no, there is not another safe species of dwarf that is commonly available.
could an aculeatus be kept in a 29g with 5g fuge for around 2 months.( i sold everything in my 50g seahorse tanks except heaters and the person is getting it in 2 months)
thanks for the quick reply though!
 

DWhatley

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#4
Sadly the aculeatus are usually full grown when they arrive and a 30 is really just too small
 

skywindsurfer

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#5
chandlerr2scott;174235 said:
ive spent hours the last three weeks reading through journals and threads on this site. after reading i really dont want to get a merc or a joubini as they are never seen in a tank and are very shy. i was looking at the dwarf version of the aculeatus called the abdobus(spelling?)
its going to be a 29 gallon biocube with 20 lbs LR and 20 lbs live sand. stock everything except i will add a protein skimmer.
anysuggestions on something bigger than a merc and smaller than aculeatus:confused:
any help will be very appreciated
Dejavu right D? lol
 

chandlerr2scott

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#6
DWhatley;174245 said:
Sadly the aculeatus are usually full grown when they arrive and a 30 is really just too small
yes i understand. i will probably wait two months and just set up the 50 gallon. anyways ive read that mercs can live with other mercs. how many can live together in the 29 gallon
 

DWhatley

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#7
Two would be no problem with a skimmer and regular water changes (keeping the water oxygenated is important and I use a cascade type combination skimmer filter on the merc 15). You could probably put 3 in that sized tank as long as they are about the same size to begin with (preferably found together - often the case with these as they are usually bi-catch from live rock farmers) and there is enough LR for each to have its own space (more lr vs less when deciding). Placing giant purple barnacle shells so that there are openings between two and three inches off the substrate seems to make attractive dens for this species.

If you can arrange the LR so that it is more or less a mountain with three displayed sides (coming forward rather than pushing it all against the wall) that arrangement has worked well for my mercs (both tanks I have used with them are hexagonal so it is an easier arrangement to achieve than with a rectangular tank). You will definitely want a red light over the tank and I recommend leaving it on 24/7. They seem to adjust well to this set up (I don't use any other lighting on the merc tank but there is lots of ambient during the day in the room).
 

iAlex

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#9
They do. I'm fairly sure the they have about the same size requirements as a Hummelincki (60+), and they should be kept at a lower temp then 70.
 

chandlerr2scott

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#10
DWhatley;174249 said:
Two would be no problem with a skimmer and regular water changes (keeping the water oxygenated is important and I use a cascade type combination skimmer filter on the merc 15). You could probably put 3 in that sized tank as long as they are about the same size to begin with (preferably found together - often the case with these as they are usually bi-catch from live rock farmers) and there is enough LR for each to have its own space (more lr vs less when deciding). Placing giant purple barnacle shells so that there are openings between two and three inches off the substrate seems to make attractive dens for this species.

If you can arrange the LR so that it is more or less a mountain with three displayed sides (coming forward rather than pushing it all against the wall) that arrangement has worked well for my mercs (both tanks I have used with them are hexagonal so it is an easier arrangement to achieve than with a rectangular tank). You will definitely want a red light over the tank and I recommend leaving it on 24/7. They seem to adjust well to this set up (I don't use any other lighting on the merc tank but there is lots of ambient during the day in the room).
okay im wanting to keep corals will that red make my corals ( red mushrooms i fragged myself) die? what if i did red lights during the day and kept the lights on all night. so that his night would be my day making him technically diurnal
 

skywindsurfer

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#11
chandlerr2scott;174252 said:
okay im wanting to keep corals will that red make my corals ( red mushrooms i fragged myself) die? what if i did red lights during the day and kept the lights on all night. so that his night would be my day making him technically diurnal
No. What makes an animal nocturnal or diurnal is when the come out. If you have the light cycle reversed, then the animal is still coming out during it's 'night', whether that's during your day or not.
 

DWhatley

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#12
You can use enough lighting during the day for most non-delicate softies (you are correct that the red only will not support these but the lighting and heat needed for hard corals is not recommended). Any that have strong stings though should not be kept with any octopus. Octos are not very delicate as they move about and just kind of walk all over anything they encounter, usually sticking their arms in every crevice along the way. In nature they would learn to avoid most stinging corals but in the tank there is little space to circumvent other fixed inhabitants and a greater chance of getting an infection. One thing you cannot do is assume that if it is in the ocean it is OK. Hobbyist who try to use this reasoning always confound me as they don't carry the thought to its natural conclusion ... animals eat each other, live fast and die hard in the ocean. Since we are restricting their habitat, giving them a better shot at a longer than expected life should always be a goal and that includes removing the natural things that will consume or injure them.
 

chandlerr2scott

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#13
skywindsurfer;174255 said:
No. What makes an animal nocturnal or diurnal is when the come out. If you have the light cycle reversed, then the animal is still coming out during it's 'night', whether that's during your day or not.
i realize this, though to me it would be coming out during the day even if the octopus thinks its night time.
 

chandlerr2scott

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#14
DWhatley;174256 said:
You can use enough lighting during the day for most non-delicate softies (you are correct that the red only will not support these but the lighting and heat needed for hard corals is not recommended). Any that have strong stings though should not be kept with any octopus. Octos are not very delicate as they move about and just kind of walk all over anything they encounter, usually sticking their arms in every crevice along the way. In nature they would learn to avoid most stinging corals but in the tank there is little space to circumvent other fixed inhabitants and a greater chance of getting an infection. One thing you cannot do is assume that if it is in the ocean it is OK. Hobbyist who try to use this reasoning always confound me as they don't carry the thought to its natural conclusion ... animals eat each other, live fast and die hard in the ocean. Since we are restricting their habitat, giving them a better shot at a longer than expected life should always be a goal and that includes removing the natural things that will consume or injure them.
i gotcha. i will not add coral, is it a good idea to have live foods already in your tank when the octopus arrives
 

SabrinaR

Larger Pacific Striped Octopus
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#17
I just read a post earlier about a coral banded shrimp that was mean and killed a fish and some other things in the tank. I am not sure if this is typical though D said that it wasnt. At one point or another even if they dont bug the octopus the octopus will eat them.
 

skywindsurfer

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#18
SabrinaR;174286 said:
I just read a post earlier about a coral banded shrimp that was mean and killed a fish and some other things in the tank. I am not sure if this is typical though D said that it wasnt. At one point or another even if they dont bug the octopus the octopus will eat them.
No that's not typical, and I think thats the intention.
 

DWhatley

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#19
Is this a case where the bandids are not removable? They are such interesting little guys that it seem a real shame to use them as food. The only caveate is size. As with most preditors, the larger animal wins and this includes octopuses (as Roy unintentionally demonstrated with a blue ring and a mantis shirmp in his infamous video several years ago). I asked Mucktopus if she saw any signs of octos allowing grooming while she was studying the aculeatus. She answered that their team never saw this but that she had heard reports of cleaner fish interacting with O. cyanea. The bandids are so aggressive in their hunt for parasites that I would not expect a second chance at explaining what it was trying to do (and parasites on octopuses are found on the inside, not the outside).
 

chandlerr2scott

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#20
just ordered some stuff. since ordering the 29g was pointless i ordered the 14 g. the extra money allowed me to buy a tunze protein skimmer and a submersible red led light. it will get here monday im pretty excited! my lfs says they can get me joubini, even though its most likely mercatoris. so i will order through them in a few months after the tank cycles.
question: is there anyway to speed up the cycling process, for this size tank how long should i cycle. 20lbs ls 10 lbs lr
 

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