Unknown Phylum. Any suggestions?

A random thought: there might not be two distinct lateral vents in the body, there could be a single vent belting the ventral surface and we're just seeing a corner of that in the pics.

Following up on ob's sketch, here's one of my own. Has anyone got a close-up of the water pores at the base of Tremoctopus's arms? I drew this whilst thinking ceph but without being wedded to the Tremoctopus theory. I see similarities in bauplan to other, smaller octopods like Japetella and Bolitaena, too. I'm pretty solidly on the side of ceph, but I've no specific dog in this hunt.

Cheers,
Clem
 

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Hmmmm. Ok, the arm formula for female Tremoctopus is 2.1.4.3, with arm pairs 1 and 2 about twice as long as 3 and 4. The web depth between different arm pairs is also considerably variable, being 9-52% the longest arm length.

Extensive webbing exists between arms 1 & 1 (A), 1 and 2 (B), but it is extremely shallow between arms 2 and 3 (C), 3 and 4 (D) and between 4 and 4 (E); web formula is somewhat variable, but sector B invariably is deepest, A next so, with sectors C, D and E somewhat variable, any being the most shallow on different specimens.

I am not sure if you would see arms 3 and 4 from any perspective in any of the photos (being ventro-lateral and ventral in orientation, and shorter than arms 1 and 2).

Excellent sketch though.
 
Just read through this thread for the first time. Fascinating stuff! For what its worth my first thought before reading all the posts was Mola but now......? One weird beastie whatever it is

Love the poster!:lol:

Andy
 
Another drawing attached, again done without a specific cephalopod in mind, using the rl] as a model for this profile. Some key ventral areas were left looking vague or blank.

There've been occasions in my life when I've heard a ripping yarn about mysterious things and thought, "Why don't they ever have cameras? Good photos would clear this right up." HA! Here we have good photos and a well-detailled account and we're still standing around, hands in pockets, saying "Huh."

Clem
 

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I think your drawings are covering some good angles on it, they're exactly what I'm seeing as well.

On the last one the only thing I'd add/change is maybe a more pronounced dolphin-like beak-looking tip to the mantle, as in this pic...

 
Clem;92097 said:
Another drawing attached, again done without a specific cephalopod in mind, using the rl] as a model for this profile. Some key ventral areas were left looking vague or blank.

There've been occasions in my life when I've heard a ripping yarn about mysterious things and thought, "Why don't they ever have cameras? Good photos would clear this right up." HA! Here we have good photos and a well-detailled account and we're still standing around, hands in pockets, saying "Huh."

Clem


But why would a ceph adopt that shape and stick part of its body out of the water?
 
Michael Blue;92098 said:
On the last one the only thing I'd add/change is maybe a more pronounced dolphin-like beak-looking tip to the mantle
Hi Michael,

The bottle-like shape you refer to isn't all that apparent in the fourth photo; when the animal's in its diving posture (I'm assuming that's what it's doing), that area appears more like a flattened bill, so that's how I drew it. If I do another photo-derived profile, I'll have a go at a delineation of the "shnozzle."

Cheers,
Clem

Edit:
Chrono said:
But why would a ceph adopt that shape and stick part of its body out of the water?
Whatever this animal is, in the fourth photo it's clearly diving or trying to dive; the eyewitness describes this behavior. Plenty of animals (not just cephs) look like this when they're diving, i.e. with the dorsal area arched; however, this critter is arched and elongating/flattening as it dives, which I take as another indication that it's an invertebrate.

Edit 2:...Tremoctopus still isn't sitting right with me. If those are arms they're too short relative to the length of the body, and what's been called zebra-patterning is looking to me like outer (red) and inner (white) surfaces of arms that are both fanned and curled in at the tips. Overall, the animal's color, shape, proportion and details, specifically the two prominent pores on the dorsal, have me thinking along Alloposidae lines. The low end of the eyewitness-given dimensions is 30cm, which is about right for a male Haliphron. I'm NOT SAYING THIS IS Haliphron atlanticus, but in my opinion this thing looks more like something from the Alloposidae than the Tremoctopodidae.
 
The only problem with Haliphron (=Alloposus) is that the male is gelatinous/translucent, as far as I can ascertain from online images, and a few specimens from off Tasmanian (South Australia) seamounts; the female is anything but translucent. Also, Haliphron doesn't have those 'water pores', if that's what they are.

Clem, your last illustration is sensational; 5 gold stars there!

If this is Tremoctopus, and I lean that way now (not 100%, but getting there ... sadly; at least Greg has to buy me a round in Florida!), then it is doing something that we've not seen before - possibly something to do with reproduction, brooding eggs/an egg mass, or feeding (perhaps it has some swarm of krill/crustaceans in the web, and is slowly munching on them - might explain the small dorsal prominence in some of the pics - the buccal bulb). Then again, it could be as someone suggested earlier, a defensive mode - arms withdrawn because of the dolphins nearby.

So, that's one of 4 pics that has been explained. What on Earth is that schnozzle thing?
 
Steve O'Shea;92124 said:
So, that's one of 4 pics that has been explained. What on Earth is that schnozzle thing?
In all seriousness, if this is indeed a ceph, could it be mimicking behavior? Looks like a sea-slug, looks like a bottle-nose (and that's who it was swimming with, right?)... Could that be possible? We know that the "mimic" and wunderpus themselves have some pretty incredible mimicking capabilities. Might other species of ceph have this ability?

Just asking!
 
Steve O'Shea;92124 said:
Also, Haliphron doesn't have those 'water pores', if that's what they are.
Thanks, Steve, but what's that porish-looking spot visible in this picture on this site? In Fig.1, the spot's position on the head relative to the visible corner of the mantle opening matches up with similar-looking structures on the mystery critter. So, if that isn't a water pore on Haliphron's head, what is it? I don't want to confuse the issue or lead with improper nomenclature.

Cheers,
Clem
 

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I love this forum! Even if my Tremoctopus stance would prove false, I still would have had a field day!
 

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