Unidentified Octopus with egg clutch

niki

Pygmy Octopus
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#1
Hi guys...

here is an octopus i have recieved from the philliphines. she layed eggs inside her cup and i have isolated the eggs from her and have them aereating. my question(s) are : what is she? and more importantly, will i be able to save the babies? thanks octo-gurus and have a g'day...Niki


 

simple

Vampyroteuthis
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#3
Im not sure about the ID of the octopus, might be A. Aculeatus if it came from the Philippines but it doesnt look too much like one. How big are the eggs? They seem like large eggs, if so then you should be able to raise them.
 

cuttlegirl

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#4
She doesn't look like she is going to make it much longer. :sad: I was thinking the eggs looked really small, but it is hard to tell from the photos. The eggs are indeed fertile, I can see the little embryos. Better stock up on plankton and some Cyclopeeze if you are going to try and raise them.
 

shipposhack

Haliphron Atlanticus
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#5
I was thinking the eggs are pretty small as well. Definitely not Abdopus Aculeatus. I will try to research a possible ID later tonight if I have time to get on the computer. In the meantime, possibly someone will be able to help.
 

mucktopus

Haliphron Atlanticus
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#6
Senescing octopuses lose the ability to produce body patterns. If you look closely you can see remnants of the star pattern around the eye and the dorsal mantle white spots. Combine this with shorter dorsal arms, small eggs, and small size and you have A. aculeatus...just a very old one. The eggs will be better off with the female, although there is no hope of raising them past hatching.
 

Colin

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#7
Hi, Welcome to TONMO.com

Looks exactly like my last octopus did before it died, that was aculeatus, or at least a very closely related species.

Sorry the eggs are very hard to rear unless you have a supply of zooplankton?

Colin
 

niki

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#9
Oh well thanks everybody :) I appreciate it. Nice forum you have here. I"m learning tons.

I'm sure the octopus, Franki, will die soon. She doesn't move much, and she isn't interested in food. We shall see.

As for the eggs, at any given time I have freshly hatched artemia, adult artemia, copepods, arthropods(hufa enriched) any and all frozen foods you can imagine... including ova.

i'm at a wholesale facility in los angeles with a very dedicated, ethical owner and boss who encourages these types of projects. i have never studied cephies too much, being a coral junkie but we do recieve several (cuttles, myriad different kinds of octos, nautliis etc.)

so i guess if you guys can help me, or point me in the right direction, i will do everything within my power to rear the clutch. any articles or sites that i can use? and it would really help if we could get an accurate ID. i'll post as many pictures as I can on other sites to find out. I will also photo document the entire process. Do you guys know of anyone who has raised these octos?

thanks, niki
 

simple

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#10
I know dwhatley has experience raising octopus mercatoris, so she might be able to help. Just wondering, since you mentioned that your wholesaler regularly gets cuttlefish and octopuses, is there any way that we could buy from them, or if not a store that your wholesaler supplies? Thanks.
 

Aqua Tech

O. bimaculoides
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#11
niki;107795 said:
Oh well thanks everybody :) I appreciate it. Nice forum you have here. I"m learning tons.

I'm sure the octopus, Franki, will die soon. She doesn't move much, and she isn't interested in food. We shall see.

As for the eggs, at any given time I have freshly hatched artemia, adult artemia, copepods, arthropods(hufa enriched) any and all frozen foods you can imagine... including ova.

i'm at a wholesale facility in los angeles with a very dedicated, ethical owner and boss who encourages these types of projects. i have never studied cephies too much, being a coral junkie but we do recieve several (cuttles, myriad different kinds of octos, nautliis etc.)

so i guess if you guys can help me, or point me in the right direction, i will do everything within my power to rear the clutch. any articles or sites that i can use? and it would really help if we could get an accurate ID. i'll post as many pictures as I can on other sites to find out. I will also photo document the entire process. Do you guys know of anyone who has raised these octos?

thanks, niki
Hello there, great pics of the eggs by the way, I may be willing to purchase the eggs if it is possible for them to survive a shipping trip? (any advice from the Octo gods???) lol also what wholesaler do you work for? i own Aqua tech exotic design and be a customer, lol email me the wholesale contact if you can mark@aquatechexoticdesign.com i have plenty of plankton, artemia, copepods, arthropods and much much more to feed them. either way i wish you luck at rasing them if thats what you decide to do, thanks for sharing the pics.


Mark,
 

niki

Pygmy Octopus
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#12
hey mark i'll email you from work tommorow :)

simple, i would be more than happy to hook you up with stores in your surrounding area that we sell to. i personally will pick out the animals they order for you and also work with you on what animals you would like :) and, i'm not a salesperson, i'm in husbandry. i just enjoy helping animals find good homes. i get real attached to the little buggers! pm me your info, location, fav stores, and genus/species you are interested in.
 

shipposhack

Haliphron Atlanticus
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#13
mucktopus;107763 said:
Senescing octopuses lose the ability to produce body patterns. If you look closely you can see remnants of the star pattern around the eye and the dorsal mantle white spots. Combine this with shorter dorsal arms, small eggs, and small size and you have A. aculeatus...just a very old one. The eggs will be better off with the female, although there is no hope of raising them past hatching.
:sad: That is the saddest looking A. Aculeatus I have ever seen. At least this was her natural time to go.

Mucktopus says that there is no hope of raising them past hatchling because they are a small-egged species. The larval octopuses are going to be planktonic, and will need appropriate sized food, zero predators, and a home where they will not be sucked up by equipment or constantly run into things. I don't doubt that the eggs will survive shipping, it would be after shipping that would make them near-impossible to keep. Large-egged species (Bimacs, mercs) are benthic when hatched, therefore making them large enough to raise in a captive environment. Although O. Mercatoris is a dwarf octopus, the large eggs make them a candidate for captive raised stock.

I would think your best chance at raising any of these young would be to get a rubbermaid tub with a few air pumps and airline tubing and try to culture phytoplankton, rotifers, and other small organisms that the little octos would be able to eat until they reach a reasonable size- that's what I would do if the opportunity arose. I would not waste money having them shipped just to have them die shortly after birth.
 

Aqua Tech

O. bimaculoides
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#14
I agree! but for a small fee may be worth the time, seeing I have all that and more available to raise such a species, besides no one said they were sale or willing to ship i just thought i would ask, I can only learn by trying. but who knows i am willing to spend a small fee to try and learn be it the hard way or the easy way, lol I think no matter what i would still jump at the chance just top try it and say i tried it, lol but i totally agree with what your saying, if i didnt have the facility I have I would NEVER attempt it.

mark,
 

mucktopus

Haliphron Atlanticus
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#16
from Iglesias J., Otero J.J., Moxica C., Fuentes L. & Sanchez F.J. (2004) The completed life cycle of the octopus (Octopus vulgaris, Cuvier) under culture conditions: paralarval rearing using Artemia and zoeae, and first data on juvenile growth up to 8 months of age. Aquaculture International, 12, 481-487:

Abstract. This paper shows innovating results on Octopus vulgaris Cuvier 1797 growth under
culture conditions during the whole life cycle. Experiments were conducted at the Spanish
Institute of Oceanography of Vigo (Spain). Using mean water temperature of 22.5◦C, salinity
of 35 and adult Artemia (1–4mm of total length) along with a diet complement of Maja
squinado zoeae as living prey, it was possible to obtain a 31.5% paralarval survival at day
40 after hatching. At this age, paralarvae had reached a dry weight of 9.5mg, 23 suckers per
arm, and they began the settlement process. First results on juvenile growth showed that they
reached 0.5–0.6 kg at the age of 6 months after hatching, and 2 months later, they attained
weights ranging between 1.4 and 1.8 kg. Mean temperature of the ongrowing process was
18◦C.

Material and methods
Two thousand recently hatched (day 0) paralarvae were obtained from spontaneous
spawning of female octopuses kept in captivity using the technology
described by Moxica et al. (2001). They were transferred to a 1m3 PVC
tank provided with filtered seawater (1 μm) at a concentration of 2 ind l−1.
Tank was circular (130 cm of diameter) with black wall and white bottom.
Mean water temperature was 22.5◦C (19.6–22.9), salinity 35 (34.2–35.7)
and a 24 h light cycle was provided with two 36Wdaylight fluorescent tubes,
resulting in an intensity of 600–1000 lux on surface. Levels of dissolved oxygen,
nitrites and ammonium were measured daily. A close water circuit with
central aeration was maintained during the first week. Microalgae (Chlorella
sp., Isochrysis galbana and Chaetoceros sp.) were added daily in order to feed
the remaining preys in the culture tank, to keep them in the best nutritional
condition. From day 8 on, the water system was partially open (10 lmin−1) 4h
per day, with a central outlet provided with a 300 μm filter. The tank bottom
was cleaned by siphoning every 4 days.
Live diet consisted of adult Artemia (1–4mm TL) cultivated at 25◦C during
a week with a commercial cereal mix, Blevit Plus (from Ordesa Co.)
and enriched for 24 h with Chlorella sp. Artemia concentration was of 0.05–
0.1 indml−1. As a complementary diet, spider crab (Maja squinado Herbst
1788) zoeae, obtained from 16 ovigerous females, were added 4 days per
week at a concentration of 0.01–0.1 indml−1.
Dry weights of 10 paralarvae were recorded fortnightly after being washed
with distilled water, dried at 55◦C for 24 h and weighed individually. Survival
483
was recorded by counting the final number of survivors at day 40, and the
mean number of suckers per arm was also registered from 10 individuals at
this age.
In order to start the weaning process, two groups of 250 individuals (40
days-old) were transferred to 500 l square (1×1×0.5m3) grey tanks provided
with sand, gravel and macroalgae. An open water system of 2 lmin−1 was
used, with a surface inlet and a bottom central outlet of 1mm mesh size. The
rest of animals (n=130) were kept in the former larval tank. Mean temperature
during the weaning period was 22.5◦C. Diet consisted of sea urchin
(Paracentrotus lividus) and common crab (Carcinus maenas) gonads, live
small crustaceans (amphipods, mysidacea and shrimps) and thawed mussels
(Mitylus sp.). After the weaning period (2 weeks), subadults were fed with
frozen crabs and mussels; tank temperature was gradually decreased until
ambient values (17–19◦C). The same grey tanks were used in the ongrowing
period. Wet weight was recorded monthly throughout an 8-month period, in
order to obtain the first data on octopus cultivated from the paralarvae stage
up to final weights of 1.4–1.8 kg.

AND:
First feeding of Octopus vulgaris Cuvier, 1797 paralarvae using
Artemia: Effect of prey size, prey density and feeding frequency
J. Iglesias ⁎, L. Fuentes, J. Sánchez, J.J. Otero, C. Moxica, M.J. Lago:

Abstract
Different assays related to the first feeding of Octopus vulgaris Cuvier, 1797 are compiled in this paper. They include: age at
initial feeding age, prey size selection and optimal density, attack timing after feeding, and effect of dose number on the number of
captures. Prey capture and ingestion processes were also analysed. Food supplied was cultured Artemia sp. Each assay lasted
15 min.
Although paralarvae already start to feed on the hatching day (day 0), it is during day 2 when a greater number of attacks is recorded
(81.7±14.7% paralarvae attack). They mainly prefer (significance level α=0.05) large Artemia, 1.4±0.4 mm (77.0±5.6% of the total
attacks) than small Artemia, 0.8±0.1 mm (23.0±5.6%). There is also a slight predilection for the lowest Artemia concentration (33.3±
12.6% paralarvae attack in a 0.1 Artemia ml−1 density, opposite 16.7±7.6 and 18.3±7.6% in densities of 0.5 and 1 Artemia ml−1
respectively). The greatest predatory activity is recorded during the first 5 min after food is supplied (72.2±25.5%). An increase in the
predatory activity was also observed when food was distributed in several doses instead of a single dose (75.0±10.0%and 46.7±17.6%
respectively). It was proved for the first time that paralarvae completely ingest their preys (including their exoskeletons), in this case
Artemia. Time needed for their total ingestion ranges between 4 and 10 min.
© 2006 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.


VIA EMAIL: LET ME KNOW if you can't get a hold of this second paper, which has more detailed methods.
 

shipposhack

Haliphron Atlanticus
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#19
Small-egged species have eggs about the size of a grain of rice. I do not know the approximate size of the larvae when they hatch but I think they are ~1-2 cm. Large enough to eat an adult Artemia.
 

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