[Octopus]: Tranny - O. briareus

Ok I got him out of the shell today. I didnt feed him yesterday so he was hungry. I put a shrimp on a feed stick and let him touch it then pulled it away. he came out for it and I grabbed the shell. he took the shrimp and went to the back and eat his shrimp. the shrimp looked as big as him lol.

 

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Just be sure he CAN hide. Getting him to be social should never be because there is no place to go. It depends on you and the octopus as personalities for the rest but no place to hide will not make him social and could shorten his life and willingness to explore. On the other hand, making him come out for easy food (a nice junk of shrimp on a stick vs having to catch a small live meal) seems to have a positive effect as long as nothing threatens them in the process. I read of one study that tried to prove that octopuses will expend the least amount of energy for the greatest food value (unfortunately, I don't remember if I posted it or not). As I recall they examined what seemed to be signs of the foods eaten at varying depths. Much supported there theory but there were anomalies that they could not explain.
 
there are plenty of places to hide. no worries there. on the other thing it only makes sense, we are no different we want to expend as little for the biggest payoff. so why would we think any creature would be different. I know it might not be the healthiest way. I would rather make him work at least some. I dont know if octos work out the same but in all the years I have been keeping fish I have found that hungry fish are healthy fish. I dont mean starving but not overfeeding. I would like your thoughts on this. I have read on this site that some feed everyday and some every other. I guess it would help if we knew what happend in the wild. then again we are trying to take the wild out of them and make them social. I am just thinking out load lol
 
The consensus from the lab folks (people who have kept many for science studies) is that health and being hungry are positively related. In general, I am never sure if overfeeding or an overfed tank (pollution) is inclined to show the reverse.

That being said, there is no standard agreement or quantitative measure of octopus lifespan and food consumption. IME, they won't over eat if fed once a day. When they are full they ignore the food and will leave leftovers to pollute if you fail to find the uneaten remains. Roy (Dr. Caldwell - TONMO Staff Neogonodactylus who has likely the most experience in terms of numbers and years) feeds as much as an octopus will hunt and eat over roughly an hour (Roy correct me here if I misremember) every two to three days for his lab kept animals. The cold water species, in particular, seem to respond well to this kind of regime and was the accepted feeding pattern of the one cold water species I kept (Roy keeps both warm and cold species but not Caribbeans, generally)

With that preamble, I am not sold on skipping days for the warm water Caribbean species. Mine are fed daily with one fast day a week (and sometimes we cheat a little on the fast day with a small treat if the animal is obviously looking for food). Until they are senescent, they are always ready to eat at dinner time (we DO skip a day if they are not hungry). It may well be that the quantity rather than the periodicity is what matters and we may be feeding a common amounts. I see lifespans near the top of the published ranges but not extended.

Additionally, the age of the animal likely comes into play with the optimal schedule. If age at acquisition is a very young juvenile, then the growth rate is exponential at this stage and needs more fuel but in small proportions. As their growth rate slows, the number of feedings may need to be reduced. With little ones we notice that the size of the offering is important and they won't take something too big. My second guessing on this is that waste brings in predators that may find the octopus a good meal or simply take the food away because the octopus can't protect it under its mantle. When they are in their final weeks, often we see old octopuses revert to juvenile feeding quantities and easier to eat foods. Frozen shrimp often comes off the menu. One of my, I wish someone would quantitatively study this, wonder concerns their ability to "chew" or rip the food (ie some kind of failing of the radula - rasping tongue - or buccal muscle controlling the beak).

Soooo my normal feeding recommendation is, experiment :sagrin: (after about a month in the tank, initial acclimation will not be the same as when adjusted). Start with food about half the size of the mantle (eye size for the very young). If it is fully eaten and the animal is quick to take food the next eay, increase the size by half until you have left overs or a refusal to eat. This will change over the course of the animals lifetime but you will start to observe hunger signs (or reluctance to out right refusal to eat).

Our tanks are not the ocean and our animals are never (and should never) going back to the wild environment so we have to learn how to best keep them in their new world. Hopefully we make trade-offs that are positive by providing a safe environment, regular food and stimulating entertainment but we really don't know the mind of an octopus (or if it has one :wink:).
 
thank you for your insight. I love that you take the time to educate me. You Have been such a help!!! I do read as much as I can but I am at work from 6am till ????? last night 1030pm 6 days a week. "If my shop does not make it it wont be for lack of effort" Really things are good. I read about others octo threads and Information supplied by this site but when you explain things it relates to the octos I have right now. And that means everything. Are you or were you a teacher at some point and time. you are extremely patient and explain in great detail things you have probable explained a thousand times before. Once again all I can say is thank you.
 
For most of my pre and early college life I thought teaching would be my profession. Fortunately for the students, women had a couple of other choices by the time I returned to school. Unfortunately, I seemed to have aged past my profession and may yet end up in that roll for a time. In truth, we are all students here and I encourage journaling because I learn as much as I pass on.
 
LOL! I hear you! I tend to do the same thing! I definitely agree that they will learn to take the easy road to food!! Especially since they are so intelligent!! I actually have a large Iguana that think's it's a dog, seriously! People come over and are always saying what a great pet and how much he must love me! My response it that he could care less about me, but he is extremely well fed and therefore happy to hang around! Just for the record, he was a rescue I took in a few years ago.

I'm not sure about how often they eat either! Was just thinking about that because DaVinci ate great yesterday and I haven't seen him today! Hoping to see him tomorrow!!!
 
Well Ds Idea worked very well. I feed Tranny at about noon and put the feeding stick by his cave untill I saw arms coming out. then I pulled it back and tranny came out took the food and stick and stayed in view for 45 min. I am so happy about this. several customers got to see him also. The thing D said before about the blue or green around the eyes showing that he is young. I could see this a lot.





The pics dont show the green/blue the way I can see it on top of the eyes
 

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Could not sleep so came in to the shop at 330am. I didnt turn the lights on but no octos. few mins later and both were out. Tranny was out moving around checking everything out. So I got a little piece of shrimp and held it in the tank. Tranny came up to my hand and touched me then pulled back quickly. In a min or so he did it again. I think this is what I had read where your playing tag. I was wonderful to have him checking me out. I put the shrimp on a feeding stick and hung it. He didnt really go looking for it. He seemed more intrested in me. He would be on the glass on the side where his den is and I would touch the glass and he would reach an arm to try and touch me. I dont know if this is what was really happening but I would do a slow scratching with my finger on the glass and pull it away and he would reach an arm to where my finger was and wave the end of his arm the same as I did with my finger.
I handed him the feeding stick with the little piece of shrimp and he took it and was playing with the stick. This is how I feel that octos are very smart. They can multitask He was eating the shrimp playing with the stick and doing the waving game with me all at the same time. As I posted about octoguard, this morning makes keeping octos all worth it. Its going to be a great day!!!!



 

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Most of the literature will use the word curious when they describe an octopus' behavior. Your interaction is typical of the beginnings of the fun part of keeping an octopus over most other marine inverts or fish and it is not accidental. There was a paper written a few years ago that made the claim octopuses had no personality (the reference combines a couple of interesting points of study) and goes on to define personality as consistently showing the same reaction to a stimulus. Another researcher, Jean Boal commented in one study (can't find the reference but here is a summary of some of the thoughts about their intelligence) using cuttlefish that cuttles were easier to work with because they were more predictable. My own thinking is that they have something unusual about the way they remember things and that it takes a few days for them to repeat a new action/interaction that proved harmless. So, for hobbyists, I suggest that the touch and go is often the first signs of a willingness to interact with their human keepers but that you may not see it again for a few days. However, each interaction will be a little bolder, some to the point that you need to place restrictions on how curious you will allow them to become to avoid a nip. I also speculate that it has nothing to do with food and a lot to do with face time, patience and the individual animal.

I don't find them particularly "intelligent" when compared to a cat or a dog but you have to give them high IQ's when compared to any other invertebrate and there is no question that they are smart compared to their cousins (clams). IMO, they make an entertaining and educational pet and with proper care, live lives better in captivity than in their natural environment where much of their function is to provide nutrition to other animals. An enthusiast (and TONMO member but not an octo keeper) replied to my the comment in his blog this month that perhaps keeping this kind of pet is a better idea than keeping the more common domestics if the animal must kept alone and does not have the freedom of a yard or other animals to interact with during the day.
 
I'm glad Tranny is doing well. Ziggy used to come over to my hand, touch it and then back off. Then she'd come back over to it again! I have to agree, it is one of the coolest things to actually interact with an octopus! When Orange died, Kevin was like, are you really going to get another one? Isn't there something else you'd rather put in the tank? I said no way! I will keep going until I get an octopus that swims to the front of the glass and begs for breakfast!!! That's my goal! Hopefully you're on your way with Tranny to that kind of relationship!
 
Thanks D and Kim. Me and the wife went back to the shop tonight and played with Tranny for about an hour. He played tag again but just 2 times again. I was really happy about this because it was less then 2 full days since he did this with me. I also put some soft ball size rocks full of mushrooms. a few diff colors. also got some GSP. I am taking some frags of pulsing zenias from home. I know that I am not to have zoas but one of my mushroom rocks have about 8 polyps of a plain green zoa on it. Does anyone think think this might be a prob? I have a video Of Tranny. Its a little red but not to bad. Its on the wifes phone and its 2 late to get it from her. Will post it tomorrow.
 

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