This struck a nerve

Discussion in 'Ceph Care Ethics' started by Phuntoon, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. Phuntoon

    Phuntoon O. bimaculoides Registered

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  2. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    You might want to check that link Phuntoon. It isn't working for me and might be broken.
     
  3. WhiteKiboko

    WhiteKiboko Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Works for me
     
  4. norgebyblood

    norgebyblood O. vulgaris Registered

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    worked for me too.
     
  5. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    ...and a well worded reply ! Yep, some people pop out of the woodwork now and again keeping cephs in tiny tanks, but they fade away fast.

    Good call on your part.

    Greg
     
  6. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    I also think the reply is quite good. It's worrisome how many people responded with "cool, I wanna do this, too," yet you're the only one who seems to have pointed out that this guy's octo is quite likely more alive from luck than good practice... I hope that those folks follow your link if they're really interested in ceph-keeping.

    It's a bit frustrating, in that if I didn't spend time reading a lot here, I'd probably have the same attitude of "wow, this guy's doing it, and those pictures look amazing, etc." -- although my inclination would then be to google and read a lot, but I've noticed that many people just skip that step and run off to the LFS for a 3-gallon tank. But I can't really fault the responders for their initial reactions... it is, in fact, cool to see that cute little octo in that tank, for about 5 seconds until my brain kicks in and thinks about the octo's likely experience of the water chemistry.

    sigh.
     
  7. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    Kind of like the guy who was all about using 29g's for bimacs, right?

    Yep, we see a lot of those come and go...in another thread, I responded to a similar sentiment, in that I appreciate the enthusiasm, but not the realism.
     
  8. 05Xrunner

    05Xrunner Cuttlefish Registered

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    Booo ****ing hoo...Its alive and everything.

    Ohh and I have kept plenty of Bimacs in 20g that lived just about a year..I dont wanna hear any crap saying boohoo..it lived but woulda been better in a larger tank..Hell I live just fine in my house but would be SOOO much more comfortable in a 10bedroom house..I live well off my salary but would be doing sooo much better if I made 200grand a year..

    Its funny..Someone ask questions on this forum and there is NEVER a reply..But when something like this is posted all the people post away bitching and moaning.

    OHH yea...I am not the one with the 3gal tank and octo..Just saying what i want
     
  9. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    Although it's fine if you want to express an alternative opinion, please try to be civil and follow the "no trolls" guidelines in the forum rules. It's OK to disagree, but the way you did it is disrespectful and inappropriate.
     
  10. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Yes but you haven't been taken out of your natural environment and dumped into a less than desirable facility. My belief is that if we keep these animals then the onus is on us to keep them as well as we possibly can; not just in a tank that keeps them alive. These are intelligent animals and need room to explore. For many years humans kept animals like bears in bear pits or big cats in small concrete enclosures and they lived......but now this is considered inhumane as the enclosures were too small and lacked stimulation for intelligent animals...I consider a too small octopus tank to be the equivalent of a 19th century bear pit!

    BTW 05Xrunner, like many other Tonmoers I try to answer as many questions as I can (at least those that I feel qualified to comment on!) but like many (if not all) of the members of Tonmo I have a VERY busy schedule and sometimes I miss some or don't get to them for ages. It's human nature too, that the ones we feel strongly about (eg FW vs marine food, proper habitat for captive animals etc) are the ones we see and answer first and often the most vigorously!

    My :twocents:

    J
     
  11. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    Some of you may remember Pakoc, and how we went at it hammer and tongs...oddly enough, now I find myself on that same side of the fence.
    The morality of keeping animals in less than good housing bothers me...I am not wailing about every dead octopus, just have had a shift in attitude towards maintaining them to higher standards than what is considered "ok".

    As far as returning questions that are asked, I return EVERY single email, pm, or posted item that I have experience with, and so do the rest of the staff members. I don't have the time to answer every question that is already been handled by others, or by our extremely well written ceph-care articles...all available for free.

    I wonder sometimes if the public knows how hard Tony and the staff work at maintaining this site.
     
  12. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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  13. Colin

    Colin Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Oh yeah...

    People
    Against
    Keeping
    Octopuses in
    Captivity
     
  14. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    Jeez, did I get led around by the nose, or what ?:oops:

    It is kind of funny, though, that I now support more of the viewpoint of not keeping cephs in captivity...due mostly to the sorts of people who keep them in non-ideal surroundings.
     
  15. Phuntoon

    Phuntoon O. bimaculoides Registered

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    The replies of encouragement are really starting to frustrate/depress me. The latest for example:

    "i CAN'T BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE GIVING YOU KRAP. What you have done is truly genius and the extra care you are taking to keep the little guy fed and healthy is an icon for our hobby. Keep up the inspiring work.
    Any mor pics?"

    My reply to this one was a little more harsh than the last. It just bums me out that there is nothing I can really do about it. I'm really tempted to pull my ongoing thread and not go back just so I don't have to see that thread back at the top. I can just see all the seeds planted in the heads of nano/pico/way to freakin small for an octo type aquarium hobbyists. I know it's probably premature to assume, but in my own little mind it scares me to think that someday an octopus could possibly be the next "fad" creature for a nano tank the way certain corals are from time to time. Some people just don't get the difference between coral and other livestock. A coral doesn't know how big of an enclosure it's in and doesn't really care as long as it's water parameters are good and it's specific requirements are met. It also irks me when I hear people putting one or more fish in a 2.5 or 3 gallon, but I'm of course partial to to cephalopods which is why this one "struck a nerve." Before I see anymore of these pro-octo in a pico replies.....what do you all suggest I do here? Keep on discouraging this kind of practice with more replies, or do I just shut up and hope it runs its course and goes away?
     
  16. sorseress

    sorseress Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Send them over here so we can all pile on??? :sagrin:
     
  17. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Architeuthis Supporter

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    You can't change the world alone. Don't let this eat you up too much.

    I worked in Animal Control Services for 3 and a half years and it was the most depressing time of my life. I assisted with the euthanasia of about 2,100 dogs in that time period, and probably 3 times that many cats. All due to peoples disregard for the proper care of their pets. It has made me pretty bitter toward people. I have a very cynical outlook on the human race and quite honestly, life in general.

    You planted the seed.
     
  18. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    I run into these people on a daily basis...you just have to sigh, straighten your shoulders, and march on.
    Keep on fighting for what you believe in, and remember that a lot of us are with you.
     
  19. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    It's tough, we get stuff like this all the time. Direct them to Tonmo, if they're interested in holding their animals in the best possible way, rather than have them just existing in the aquatic equivalent of a bear pit they'll come.

    I always think if I can just change the opinion or engage the ethusiasm of just 1 person (i'd prefer more, but you've got to be realistic) then I'm achieving something (I've put a few passengers from cruise ships off orange roughy for life :twisted: )

    Cheers

    Jean
     
  20. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    ...then you get the sort like my mother in law, who ordered Orange Roughy last week out at dinner, just to piss me off. "Well, if they're going to be extinct, I might as well enjoy them."

    Tempting to throw the glass of wine in her face, but I was good.
     

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