Tentarcticles (Mesonychoteuthis / Colossal Squid)

[Steve O'Shea]

.....just getting my posts up (am still a giant gelatinous octopus).

On the basis of smell alone (we have not done any ionic analyses) Architeuthis would appear to have more ammonium ions in the tissues than Mesonychoteuthis (because you can smell it in Architeuthis, but not in Mesonychoteuthis). However, I am referring specifically to ammonium ions in the mantle tissues. Mesonychoteuthis, if anything like other cranchiid squid, has a body/visceral coelom into which ammonium ions are supposedly pumped - and unfortunately this coelom was ruptured in our specimen. It is possible that the fluids therein were highly ammoniacal, but we'll never know (until we get an intact specimen).

You have a ton of other questions there John. I'll have to respond to these at a later date (just a tad pressed for time right now).
Cheers
O

 

[Tintenfisch]

could there be any MORE giant species of squid out there... ?

YES.

... wouldn't that mean that Messie is not only a more mobile beastie, but a more active hunter than Archi? Some time ago, you told me that Archis hang in the water column, using their buoyancy to hang about and simply snatch passing fish... If Messie is a more active hunter, does it chase down its prey? And how much food does it take to fuel these creatures?
What if they're munching on something we don't even know about yet? Is that possible?

Yes, based on the musculature we've observed in Mesonychoteuthis (especially the fins) we think it to be a very active predator. So far its only confirmed prey is Patagonian Toothfish, a 2m fish that (we recently discovered) eats ALBATROSS. (!! ) It's very probably also eating other things, but as the stomach of this specimen was lost in transit, we can't offer any more concrete diet info.

 

[Fujisawas Sake]

You have a ton of other questions there John. I'll have to respond to these at a later date (just a tad pressed for time right now). Cheers O

Not a problem Steve... Besides, Kat is doing a good job answering them as well (Thanks Kat!). This is exciting, and it does pique my interest on the ecological side as well... Thanks again.

Sushi and Sake,

John

 

[moseman23]

sounds like a Monty Python sketch

could there be any MORE giant species of squid out there... ?

YES.

... wouldn't that mean that Messie is not only a more mobile beastie, but a more active hunter than Archi? Some time ago, you told me that Archis hang in the water column, using their buoyancy to hang about and simply snatch passing fish... If Messie is a more active hunter, does it chase down its prey? And how much food does it take to fuel these creatures?
What if they're munching on something we don't even know about yet? Is that possible?

Yes, based on the musculature we've observed in Mesonychoteuthis (especially the fins) we think it to be a very active predator. So far its only confirmed prey is Patagonian Toothfish, a 2m fish that (we recently discovered) eats ALBATROSS. (!! ) It's very probably also eating other things, but as the stomach of this specimen was lost in transit, we can't offer any more concrete diet info.

Kat,

What's the evidence the fish eats the big bird? Here's a study from your neck of the woods that doesn't seem to find anything but sea critters in the toothfish diet--although it says the beast is an opportunistic predator.

http://zoo.latrobe.edu.au/sdg/Toothfishdiet.pdf

Are you a icky-thyologist too?


b

 

[Tintenfisch]

Nope, just a Patagonian Teuthologist.

Toothfish preying on albatross may be a relatively rare occurrence (like Architeuthis consuming bits of conspecifics), but it does happen - while sorting specimens at the NZ National Museum Te Papa a few weekends back, we came across a sack of PT stomach contents that contained, among other things, quite a few albatross leg bones.

 

[Jean]

we came across a sack of PT stomach contents that contained, among other things, quite a few albatross leg bones.

Only leg bones???? could the PT be lurking round just under the surface and chewing on the odd leg??? The reason I ask is that I've just had a trip to the Royal Albatross Colony down here (for you Northerners this is the only mainland breeding colony of Royal Albatross anywhere in the world and is only 15mins drive from the Portobello Lab Ok so I'm gloating, have to since we don't have a Messie or new cute Kittens for that matter!)

Anyhow, the staff there have noticed a few birds coming in minus a leg. Albs settle on the surface to feed so the legs may look like an easy snack for a PT????????

My

J

 

[Clem]

RE: bird-chomping fish:

Years ago, my family found a large, injured gull on the outer beach of Chatham (Cape Cod), which had lost a portion of its hindquarters to something; given the locale, season and the available suspects, we guessed that it had been mauled at the surface by a bluefish.

 

[Fujisawas Sake]

Kat and Steve,

Okay, here's what's been boiling my noodle as of late. Phil and I had an interesting debate in the fossils section of the board. I was saying that cephs seem to be showing a good amount of adaptive radiation across the class, while Phil argued that cephs are apparently not as diverse and may even be on the decline, classwise. I think we're BOTH right, because we were both looking at the cephalopoda from different angles.

My take is, looking at the diversity of the bauplan in the cephalopoda, that large teuthoids and coleoids are not the exception, but the rule. If the deep ocean supports multiple species of large, raptorial predator squid, then the idea that the deep water is sparsely populated doesn't quite make sense. Even if they're eating each other, the fact that Archi and its kindred have a fast growth rate and grow to such large sizes means that they have to have a large supply of good quality nutrition. Deep water isn't heavy on the primary production, lacking sunlight and all, so what exactly is supporting the ecosystem? If its fish, then God help us, because deep sea trawling is going to do them in yet.

I know about the constant rain of detritus from the surface, but somehow there must be more down there... Something we must be missing...

Evolution is a funny thing... A niche forms, then life changes to respond to it. Are squid the top-level preds in the midwater? Why have they evolved to such gigantic size if food is so scarce? Size is the apparent rule here, and if bigger is better then something must be supporting this direction of evolution, but what?

An interesting sidenote: Prey animals are usually the larger species on land. Even in the water, the pred. marine whales (odontocetes) are the smaller of the cetacea. Perhaps some giant whale-sized squid is down there sifting plankton and krill?

Sushi and Sake,

John

 

[Steve O'Shea]

John, we had a meeting with someone yesterday ... one of these super-bright geneticist fellows .... who is going to do some rather sensational work for us. He drew lots of circles and diagrams on our white board (I was impressed - he was lucky to find any space actually) ... but I think what he was trying to get across (in baby talk) is that he can tell us whether a species (based on its genetic diversity, multiplied by this, that, the other, some weird symbols that looked upside down, and a few guesses) is on the decline. This will address one of the major concerns - that of declining/threatened/endangered deep-sea squid/octopus species (a consequence of deep-sea trawling). We're looking at something developing in this area (research programme) over the next 12 months; funding is the problem ... though working, working, working on it.

Re the other questions ... I'll go have a coffee, jump in the car, get to work, and multi-task throughout the day (think about them whilst doing my work).
Cheers ears
O

 

[Fujisawas Sake]

Steve,

I get what you mean . I do have an understanding of the basics of genetics, but it was definitely not my best subject. Part of me always felt that the focus on genetics was taking away from the animal as a whole, but I do respect molecular phylogeny, and I do have a lot of respect for those bright fellows who truly understand the science.

I, however, am not one of them.... :|

Good luck on the funding. Every time someone comes up with a good idea, someone always brings up the budget...

Sushi and Sake,

John

 

[tonmo]

For all those following this thread, the Giant Squid Fact Sheet has now been converted to a Web page (it was previously a downloadable Microsoft Word .doc file):

Giant and Colossal Squid Fact Sheet

 

[Fujisawas Sake]

Brilliant! Thank you very much!

Sushi and Sake,

John

 

[Steve O'Shea]

.....watch this space

 

[Fujisawas Sake]

I never touched your noodle

All I have to say in reply is..... :|

Steve...

You and Kat love tormenting us, don't you?

I've read your other posts. I'm dying to know what you've found!

Sushi and Sake,

John

 

[Steve O'Shea]

John, wifey is away for 3 weeks in the states. I have 2 options available: have some rest, or bust foofoo valve and try and get a few projects finished. I'm torn between the two right now (rest seems wasteful). Problem is that I've reached a point where there are too many things on, too many competing demands on my time, and I've ground to a halt.

Took last evening (fell asleep in the office) and today off; perhaps some rest is in order.