TANK SIZE and Equipment !! HELP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Discussion in 'Tank Talk' started by reef master jon, May 31, 2010.

  1. reef master jon

    reef master jon Larval Mass Registered

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    hello,

    my name is jon and I’ve been in this hobby for a while now.. I have an 85 gal tank mostly SPS corals, that’s been going strong for four years now.. And I happened to stumble upon this site and I just lost it.. I always been amazed at octopuses and never really thought of keeping one of my own..

    my first steps will picking the species…. Then making sure I build the right environment ... do anyone know of an site of place where i can purchase one ( reliable site /place) ? I can’t move forward without finding the right one for me.. I’ve search everywhere looking for sites and pets store that sell them.. no luck .. I live in NOR CAL

    any help ?

    thanks in advance
     
  2. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Unfortunately, "picking a species" is easier said than done (as you are finding out, these are not mainstream animals). Typically kept octopuses, local to your part of the country, if you are willing to use a chiller are the two bimac species (bimaculoides - intertidal and most common and bimaculatus) and the rubescens. Finding them without catching them yourself is difficult. Bimacs cannot be captured for resale in CA (they can be captured for individual use or as food/bait with a fishing license).

    We have better luck with finding the Caribbean briareus (crepuscular), mercatoris(nocturnal) and less commonly the diurnal hummelincki. Imported from Indonesia we see several in the abdopus complex (labled aculeateus for convenience) and a few small species in the nocturnal macropus. Recently we have two members keeping vulgaris or a similar animal (they were expecting briareus).

    Suppliers are pretty useless for even the a general ID. If you can determine the catch body of water, and some physical clues, a likely id can usually be established. Unfortunately, this is usually after purchase :hmm:

    That being said, there are some general rules of thumb that can assist on determining a tank size. A 45 to 55 will comfortably contain all but the briareus and vulgaris. Briareus will do much beter in something 65 gallons or more. The bigger the better in all cases except the dwarf mercatoris. Mercs are pretty shy and don't roam or swim as much as the other species and I recommend 20 gallon tank for a pair of these (mercs are also the only ones we have had limited success with keeping together through out their lives).

    Look through the three stickies marked List of Our Octopuses 2010, 2009 and 2008. The list notes the species and has a link to the journals for each animal. Tank Talk has some very good discussions on octoproofing your tank.

    Two of our staff members, Nancy and Colin have written a book to help the aquarist, Cephalopods Octopuses and Cuttlefishes for the Home Aqauarium Amazon link on the home page, bottom right, that will be helpful and there are several articles by member that can be found in the articles reference also on the home page (upper left).
     
  3. reef master jon

    reef master jon Larval Mass Registered

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    ok thanks for the info.. where can i find /purchase one ? Looking into a square tank around 40-50gallons... i willing to do anything to keep an octo.. so just need to know which one to go with.. then start constructing my tank ....


    what do u think about biocubes? is that a big enough tank? what about the built in skimmer? i was reading and it said its best to have an over sized skimmer for an octo tank....


    thank again for your help
     
  4. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    Ok let me just jump in here and say NO! to the biocubes. Trust me I know from experience. Yes they make great little "plug&play" systems and with a little tweeking you can make them do wonderful things, but the largest they make is a 30 gallon. Like dwhaltey said, unless you are looking at a dwarf species, the biocube is far too small. Also a square tank is not the best shape for cephalopods in general. That is again unless the tank to animal ratio is pretty high (meaning you have a tiny octopus in a HUGE cube). If I were you I would just start with a nice small species, and work your way up. This will give you a general understanding of how to care for an octopus in general as well as plenty of time to plan for bigger and better things if you think you want something larger (like I who started with O. Briareus, and now trying for O. Vulgaris). Anyways, good luck and I hope everything works out well.
     
  5. SabrinaR

    SabrinaR Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Registered

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    I have an A. aculeateus and its kept in a 55 gallon rectangle tank. My first one came and now that I think about it and look back at photos it too was probably a vulgaris but I honestly will never really know. But... If it had been a vulgaris I would have been in the pickle that one of our other members is in where she has a perfectly great working system but is having to upgrade the tank to a 120 so she can actually house her vulgaris properly.

    The A. aculeateus I have is the perfect fit for a 55 gallon tank. I got her from live aquaria (great company with great shipping and quality) Sad to say but I am almost glad in a sad way that my first octo didnt make it other wise it would have been REAL bad for me. I would say look at the most common kinds and if you think... even for a second that you want to keep a larger octo like briareus and vulgaris I would go with at least a 75 to 100 gallon system.

    If you want to know whose got what or rather who normally has what look on the main forum page under ceph sources. You will normally see the same places over and over and over again.. unless they are purchased locally.

    As far as set up goes... Yes you must have a really great skimmer pump return set up. If you have ever used copper then its a no go straight up it can kill them in less than a few hours. The standard rule of thumb for set up is 3 times the norm. So if the skimmer is normally rated for 150 max then the biggest octo tank you would want to put it on is a 50 gallon set up. Bigger is ALWAYS better when it comes to skimmers.

    Good luck

    Oh also STAY AWAY from small tanks... really, in the long run if you are going to set up a tank just for keeping octos then you really want a larger tank. Most ceph keepers are pretty addicted... I know I am now. And if you love it... I mean really love it, then you will want to keep it set up just for the octos and in this trade you HONESTLY have no clue what you will get. Some places are better than others but over all, they are bad about ID's and honestly most dont care enough to help you out. Save yourself the time and pain of it all and go with a min tank of 75 gallons. If I had the option of setting up a whole new system just for octos then thats what I would have done... the 55 was my reef tank and I just converted it over.
     
  6. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    I just want to interject here on keeping octopus like Vulgaris. A 120 gallon tank in my opinion is WAY too small long term for one of these animals. The vulgaris is far too large and will quickly out grow them. I have a 250 gallon tank that is 8' long, 2' high, and 2' deep and I'm still skeptical about that being large enough. As far as skimmers go, I think they can be very helpful but are not actually necessary. I have not kept a skimmer on either my 110 or 250, and everything in there is thriving just fine. But then again I'm more about biological filtration then mechanical.
     
  7. SabrinaR

    SabrinaR Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Registered

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    Maybe so... however it wasnt a plan and when you have to do what you got to do then thats what you do, period.

    And you are also the guy who keeps... stingrays, aggressive damsels and and octopus together... while you may claim to be a "risk taker" most people just want to do whats right for the octopus and not walk on the wild side with the risk.

    This is a teaching forum and while you feel comfortable taking the risk after being told over and over and over again other people should be told the safest way to start raising octopuses. Experimenting should come much later.
     
  8. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    I am not trying to aggravate anyone. I am just speaking from my experience in keeping marine ecosystems in general. What I keep in my tanks has no relevance to the necessity of using a skimmer. If you recall my recent posts I did not mention any of my beliefs in what you can and/or should (or should not) keep with an octopus. I also understand that in the case of your friend having to upgrade to a larger tank in such a manor is acceptable and justifiable. I am just stating that in my opinion a 120 is too small for an octopus that can grow larger than 4'. I was just adding to your response about your friend keeping a vulgaris in a 120 is not good in the long term. I did not want him to get the idea that O. Vulgaris is a small octopus.
     
  9. SabrinaR

    SabrinaR Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Registered

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    When you give advice to a new ceph person they believe you are here because you want to learn and are here to help. What you are doing over all is experimenting. When you yourself are experimenting it isnt a good idea AT ALL to pass that information off as though its the norm, what is best, or any other thing that you may wish it to be.... If you wish to be responsible in your posts you should be clear and state that what you are doing is truly and experiment so they know it is not the "right way" for a newbie to start out. When people seek advice they have EVERY RIGHT to know exactly who is giving it and should be able to trust that here at TONMO they can believe and trust the advice they are given in respect to ceph care.

    I find this COMPLETELY funny. For you to tell anyone what is actually best or not good long term is insane. You keep an octopus, a stingray and countless fish all together, dispite anyone telling you that this is not the best set up for an octopus. And then you tell someone whose looking for the right info that a skimmer isnt needed? Really??

    People here at TONMO are here to help people who keep, care for, and learn about CEPHS!!! You put an octopus at risk and just rub our noses in it. Are we supposed to be proud that you are here spouting very BAD advice? What did you think people here would think? What did you expect us to say or feel about the insane methods you use? Did you even think about how we feel knowing that in our opinion you are putting a fantastic animals life at risk?

    I know I am a little intense right now... but I have been reading the stuff you have posted and I just can not be silent any longer. For the most part I try to ignore it but I cant sit by and allow you to give bad information again and again and not say what I am sure many of the others here must be thinking.
     
  10. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    ditto
     
  11. sulley

    sulley Wonderpus Registered

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    thank you
     

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