Synthetic Sea Salt formula

maplichen

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#1
I was curious as to what salt formulas people are using safely with cephalopods. I have seen examples of instant ocean, red sea, and kent and have been comparing those and a number of other formulas to NSW element concentrations.

I take care of several tanks where I raise S. officianalis and S. pharonis and have always used Kent without issue. However, there recent formula change increases several minerals, which along with the kent marine vitamin supplement I soak their food in weekly, I feel may be resulting in ill health among the animals. For me price is going to be far secondary to making these cuttlefish happy, so what are formulas any of you have had success with?
 

SabrinaR

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#2
I use a combo of natural sea water and Seachem Reef salt. I read a review (that wasnt published) and emailed the phd that did the study. Basically he said that instant ocean was so poor that he would NEVER use it again (and he was VERY clear about it) From his research (cant find it right now) seachem reef had some of the better results but I have also heard great things about hW Marinemix Plus BioElements (though it was a long time ago and formulas change so who knows) Unfortunately unless you get your water straight from where they live it will always be second best.
 

maplichen

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#3
Thank you so much Sabrina. I had a single anecdote on disappointing results with instant ocean from a friend but with your evidence I'll definitely steer away from it. I have no way to get the true sea water unfortunately but I haven't seen any red flags against Seachem salt so I may go with that. Hadn't even heard of the hW Marinemix but I will be sure to look it up. Again, thanks a lot.
 

CaptFish

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#4
Interesting, I swear by instant ocean and would never use anything else, as do both of my LFS's and my fellow reefers. We all also use natural seawater as well.
:roflmao:

I tried Sechem, once but It took forever to dissolve.
 

SabrinaR

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#5
CaptFish;172790 said:
Interesting, I swear by instant ocean and would never use anything else, as do both of my LFS's and my fellow reefers. We all also use natural seawater as well.
:roflmao:

I tried Sechem, once but It took forever to dissolve.
Did you use the reef or marine version? I have only ever used the reef so maybe its different IDK?? It might also be something in our water that brakes it down differently. The reef formula completely dissolved in about 30 min and I have no left over crud at the bottom. I tried a few other salts but was disappointed with the quality. Seachem reef had the best results for me.
 

CaptFish

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#6
Did you use the reef or marine version?
it was soooo long ago I dont remember.

I have used Instant Ocean for over 20 years now and I learned to use it from my Dad, who has had tanks at least as long as I was alive. I have no idea how long he has used it. To me I guess its just what i learned with and like so it's what I use.

I always figured it was like cars, its all a matter of opinion. Some people like Ford, some Like Chevy. Some people like Mercedes, some BWM, and some Audi. Some people like Ferrari some like Porche and some like Lamborghini.
Ford, Audi, Porche, and instant ocean for me.8-)
 

SabrinaR

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#7
:biggrin2: Well if it aint broke dont fix it right.
 

Joe-Ceph

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#8
SabrinaR;172785 said:
Unfortunately unless you get your water straight from where they live it will always be second best.
Here in San Diego, free filtered sea water is available through Scripps Institute of Oceanography (part of the State funded Univ. of Ca). it is taken from a couple hundred feet off shore, in a heavily populated area, but it's the same area where I catch bimacs, so I think it must be fine. One of the local fish stores tells people that it's dirty, and that they would be much better off using (buying) mixed RO/DI water. That may well be true, but it at least makes it clear that there are strong opinions on both sides. For me, my cheapness and laziness are persuasive lobbyists for using the free Scripps water, and since bimacs are living in it already, I wonder how bad could it be?
 

DWhatley

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#9
LOL, there are different kinds of "dirty". My water is filthy and my RO unit get covered in fine red mud even after 3 RO prefilters two larger prefilters (larger as in holes since the RO prefilters would devistate my already poor water pressure) as it enters the house. However, chemically, it is relatively clean.

I too use Instant Ocean. I like the Red Sea mix slightly better but have switched back to IO (for several years now) because of cost. I have not tried the Tropic Marin that Nancy has mentioned liking and is a favorite in Europe.

Mazda RX7, Mercedes SLK230 :wink:
 

maplichen

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#12
Ok, I guess instant ocean isn't that bad after all. Thanks so much for the help. I was leaning toward seachem but I'll think about it now.
 

Thales

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#13
SabrinaR;172785 said:
I use a combo of natural sea water and Seachem Reef salt. I read a review (that wasnt published) and emailed the phd that did the study. Basically he said that instant ocean was so poor that he would NEVER use it again (and he was VERY clear about it) From his research (cant find it right now) seachem reef had some of the better results but I have also heard great things about hW Marinemix Plus BioElements (though it was a long time ago and formulas change so who knows) Unfortunately unless you get your water straight from where they live it will always be second best.
That sounds like the S-15 study, or Shimek's urchin study. Both had SERIOUS problems and are widely thought of as essentially useless. If its a different study, please let me know about it.

Most salts are just fine, and generally the people who recommend expensive salts seem to do it to justify spending the money. :biggrin2:

I like IO and RC, cheap, readily available and generally not tweaked that often by the companies. I also like the ESV salt and Tropic Marin, but cant see a reason to justify the expense besides 'I like it for some reason' :biggrin2:

At work we currently use IO, but are switching to our own formula. At home I use RC - IO with a little more Mg and Ca.

It looks to me like most people have problems with salts when they change brands or start experimenting because they read somewhere that someone said it made their animals 'look better', so my advice is find something you know you can get and stick with it.
 

esquid

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#14
SabrinaR;172785 said:
I read a review (that wasnt published)
Was this an actual experiment that had compared salt mixes or just observations on a single type of salt? Generally, it is not a good idea to work off unpublished information as it has not been peer reviewed.
 

SabrinaR

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#15
It was an actual experiment. I asked him why it wasnt published and he said because key members of the research group had gone different ways and information was never brought back together. I am looking for the info that I read trying to fined the link.
 

esquid

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#16
With all the forms of technology available today I can't imagine how the "information was never brought back together" if the data collected was worth publishing. The scientists I work with regularly collaborate and publish with people located all over the world.
 

Lmecher

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#17
Hmmm...interesting thread. For the record, I use Seachem reef salt. I switched from Oceanic because I couldn't keep my PH up. I have been happy with it.
 

SabrinaR

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#18
Lmecher;172983 said:
Hmmm...interesting thread. For the record, I use Seachem reef salt. I switched from Oceanic because I couldn't keep my PH up. I have been happy with it.
This was my problem as well. The ph would stay around 7.8 and wouldnt get any higher. I was dosing almost everyday and decided to make a change.
 

SabrinaR

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#19
esquid;172982 said:
With all the forms of technology available today I can't imagine how the "information was never brought back together" if the data collected was worth publishing. The scientists I work with regularly collaborate and publish with people located all over the world.
I dont believe it was a problem getting the info so much as getting people to give him the other information. I am still looking for the post. I unfortunately no longer have the email but I will find the study.
 

SabrinaR

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#20
Here is part two of where he was begining to publish is findings.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/eb/index.php

There was no third part that I could find though there was a thread conversation on one of the forums regarding the talk he gave on this point.

I contacted Eric via email to ask what his finding were and to ask which salt he found worked best. While he stated (and I agree) that it is a complex matter of which salt works best the over all opinion after using Instant Ocean in the study, he found it to a very bad salt with very bad and surprising (his words) results.

I will be the first to admit that I dont know much about the different salts. I know what works for me and what doesnt. Instant ocean didnt work so I went looking for something that would.
 

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