SQUIDCAM issues

Discussion in 'Physiology and Biology' started by Steve O'Shea, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Hi all. Just a heads up. The SQUIDCAM site might have to be pulled, as in taken down, offline, because I do not have animal ethics approval to keep squid live in a tank, which is apparently considered a 'manipulation.'

    I've attached a poll that I'd appreciate your opinion on; to keep or not to keep basically, to send a message to others that we mean no harm, and perhaps know what we're doing.

    Feel free to post any comments here.
     
  2. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Does ethics approval apply to all animals? Do you have to ask permission every time you keep an animal?
     
  3. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    It's difficult; being associated with the University may well require this. I'm checking this out now.
     
  4. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorry for your troubles Steve :sad:

    Surely they could not be in better hands!
     
  5. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    Certainly it should stay online -- I'm not sure what good would come of taking it offline.
     
  6. GPO87

    GPO87 Sepia elegans Staff Member Moderator

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    I have no issues with the squidcam going down for a little while (but not too long) until the appropriate permits are obtain. Preferably I'd like it to stay up, but I don't want you or the university to get into any legal troubles with whoever is accusing you of not having the permits. Although, surely the university has some sort of permits for raising animals in captivity... for science!
     
  7. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Hmmmm our ethics approval is the same. squid are required to have a permit because they are defined as "Animals" in the Animal welfare act, along with, vertebrates and crabs and crayfish, other molluscs, echinoderms etc are not and thus you can apparently do what you want to them legally speaking. University ethics committees tend to be a bit tougher and require approval to hold anything! We go through this every couple of years to keep the aquarium and education programmes running, we even have to allow for how much zooplankton we collect! It's getting so that if you hold these animals for research without the ethics approval (& thus have a permit number) you cannot publish!

    J
     
  8. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    I could absolutely see there being a protest / objection if it wasn't a dedicated marine biologist and expert teuthologist at the helm of this. As it is, it's a ridiculous concern (in my opinion)
     
  9. GPO87

    GPO87 Sepia elegans Staff Member Moderator

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    here here!
     
  10. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I was not sure what the third choice meant. Was it a no interest vote? It would be my choice if it meant that we are not effected here by the classification so you have to decide but I would not want to suggest a lack of interest. Since I visit nightly (and am now sure to reset the camera to the defaults after I get my best picture of the evening), I would miss my chance to observe something I will never see live and the hopes of comparing the pictures across time. If we would ultimately lose the ability to have this kind of live monitoring for the sake of delaying the process for retarded paperwork, then I would vote to take it down while someone pushes some paper (not saying where it should go or the method of delivery) and the offended authorities go back into their shells.
     
  11. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    I would agree (especially where Steve is concerned) but there have been occasions when the researcher has been so tied up in their research that the animal/s have suffered. In early days some research involved putting out the eyes of octopus to test how they could still function and what the statolith/statocyst complex did, wouldn't be tolerated now (kinder research had half ping pong balls covering the eyes), or animals being held in substandard enclosures, even in reputable establishments, But I do agree it shouldn't be so hard to get if you have a good record.

    J
     
  12. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    Well, yes, I agree with that, too. I guess I'm just saying it's ridiculous because it is Dr. Steve we're talking about here. It's definitely a valid concern (the well-being of the cephs), and the procedures should be followed. In the case of Steve, he should certainly be able to do it retroactively without disrupting his project. Good points!
     
  13. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Neal thinks Steve should be FORCED to keep the camera running so the world can SEE if he is abusing the squid.
     
  14. squidflakes

    squidflakes Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Steve,

    How does Australia view cephalopods? In the US, we only have to follow the ethics rules that apply to tissue samples.
     
  15. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    We are closing SQUIDCAM down. This is the ruling that I have from the National Animal Ethics Advisory Committee, Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, New Zealand.

    I must apologise to all concerned; I will let the animals go today/tomorrow.

    Sorry
    Steve
     
  16. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    BLAST! did they say why? I've had permits to hold squid in the past and I'm sure you have too. Is this an administrative slap on the hand? if so it's pretty petty.........commiserations :sad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

    No need for YOU to apologise!

    Jean
     
  17. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    :sad:

    SQUIDCAM is now offline
     
  18. hermissenda

    hermissenda Blue Ring Supporter

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    Thanks for the squid cam, I've been enjoying it since it came up whenever I can. I wish you'd phrased the poll differently - Do I think the squid cam "should" stay up? Not if it is going to get anyone in trouble or cause an ulcer. But I would love to see it stay up. Best of luck on your ethics issue, whether you can maintain squidcam or not, I hope very much that you can continue to keep your squid!
     
  19. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    Unfortunately, the squidcam is offline indefinitely, as of about a week ago (discussed in the "squidcam is now live" thread).
     
  20. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    .... but it will be back up and running in a different sort of way in a week or so .... for a different kind of squid, although less interactive :silenced:
     

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