Squid Body From Whale Stomach

Thought I’d add my two penneth here. Are we assuming that the bits of squid we’re seeing are what’s left after physeter’s had a go at it and these are the parts it didn’t eat? I’d assumed that these chunks are essentially whale vomit?! I’ve heard that sperm whales are pretty easy to scare and that if a few pseudorca or even dolphins hassle one it’s likely to throw up. There is a theory that the pseudorca are doing this so they can eat the chunks of squid etc that the sperm, whale, how shall I put it, spews. :yuck: Nice.

If this is the case, perhaps the tentacles and head are being snaffled by something or have sunk and only the large ammoniac etc tissues remain undepredated on the surface – this is assuming the whale threw up all the parts of the squid in the first place. Also, can anything else take a squid this size? If a beaked whale or something else that can get down to where these squid live was responsible, perhaps they can’t swallow the whole thing and are leaving the mantle?

Additionally, Grimalditeuthis, with such a low protein content surely doesn’t make a great meal for many scavengers – is this why it’s untouched, or am I being dumb? Probably the latter .
Sorry for the ramble, mostly questions I’m afraid.
 
:shock:

A few thoughts and questions:

If the sperm whale isn't fussy, it might just be sloppy. Operating in the dark, and not terribly agile, perhaps it just plows through a group of stunned, echo-located squid, chomping and gulping as it goes. Maneuvering to reclaim the bits that get pinched off would consume time and air-supply. Caught in the powerful fluke wash of the descending whale, those missed pieces would be pushed towards the surface. Just visualizing, here.

As for the disparity in upper/lower beak retention, is one half generally more firmly anchored to the buccal muscles than the other? In other words, if a cetacean bit down on the head of a squid, might one half of the beak pop out into the water and miss being swallowed? Alternately, would one half be more readily passed out the back end?

Bruno's squid definitely has a chiroteuthid look to it. My first thought was that it looked like Joubiniteuthis, with those very long arms, lanceolate fins and long tail, but it's too big (I think). One of the arms looks quite a bit smaller than the rest...one of the 1st arm pair? The size of the arms suggests that the missing tentacles might be comparitively slight.

The image of a sperm whale being harassed into vomiting is mind-boggling. A bit like a child being shaken down by bullies for lunch money. Nik, your point about cetaceans besides sperm whales being responsible for these maulings is well taken. You know what they say about assumptions.

Cheers,

Clem
 
A lot to digest there! Just bouncing ideas around - not answering anything in particular.

Nik, the whale-vomit theory - rather interesting; but what if they don't vomit as often as has been popularised (every time a spider walks up behind them and goes 'boo'). Stranding must be a pretty stressful affair, and the majority don't appear to have regurgitated stomach contents. Sure, sticking a harpoon in your hide, then towing the life out of you and hauling you aboard a vessel is going to be extremely stressful, yet even after all of this entire squid have been recovered from stomachs. I see little point in being the largest thing down there, capable of diving to preposterous depth, and being timid, puking at every noise or bump in the dark.

Perhaps vomit under duress is the exception rather than norm.

Beaks .... ja, the lower beak just pops out with a quick squeeze of the buccal bulb (with thumb, behind the hood). It would be the lower that is used for identification, wouldn't it. Heavens, Clem, nail on the head; the upper beak is tightly bound in musculature - it doesn't fall out all that often.
 
um... said:
Asperoteuthis of some sort?
Asperoteuthis sp. A

Hmmm, very interesting. Has the right look, um..., though there's not much at Tree of Life about size. Little known animals can be so uncooperative. Did you read the bit about how Asperoteuthis might "swim" its tentacles around by using the fins on the clubs? Very cool.

Cheers,

Clem
 
Reviving this thread, assuming the jury is still out....

Back to Clem's query by mademoiselle Ocean (are you for real?).

Could it be that the parts identified as "mantle" and "tailfins" are merely non-dislocated tentacles, given the the assumed gladius a much more logical position? I would say that looking at the "mantle" as a tentacle slumped anti-clockwise and the "tail" section as either one tentacle in a loop or two tentacles loosely associated towards the back would provide an easier way of identifying this unfortunate sperm whale victim? Let me go back and count as well and see whether I get to 8 or 10 this way

PS: "I took a few pictures"; wazzup wi' dat? Could you give Joan a buzz?
 
ob said:
Could it be that the parts identified as "mantle" and "tailfins" are merely non-dislocated tentacles, given the the assumed gladus a much more logical position?
Hello OB,

Good question. Granting that rl] is less than optimal in terms of detail and scale, I still think that the head of the squid is in the foreground of the picture plane, arm-stumps and all, with the tail in the background. Your argument that the gladius should, by rights, be closer to the tail is certainly logical. Given that this squid was run over by the cetacean equivalent of a double-decker bus, I still think it's more likely that the gladius was violently compressed, possibly snapped in two (or three) and squeezed out through the mantle margin.(I should also say that the remains in the photo could well have been given a post-mortem working over by sharks or other predators, so I shouldn't go blaming the whale for all of the damage.)

Unfortunately I have not heard from Ms. Ocean since our initial exchange, so haven't got any more pics or testimony to share.

Cheers,
Clem
 
Total agreement here on orientation, I guess that we're looking straight into the buccal mass. I'll do some work on the picture as to illustrate my "hypothesis"

Edit: Please find loose rendition, giving you the general idea of my argument :biggrin2:
 
Hello OB,

While you're working on your illo, here are a few more whale crumbs to ponder.

This one doesn't have much info attached (none, really), but it does provide an interesting view of the internal structures of the severed arms.

And then there are these two, photographed in the Azores. The one on the left looks like Haliphron atlanticus to me.

Cheers,
Clem
 
Clem said:
(I should also say that the remains in the photo could well have been given a post-mortem working over by sharks or other predators, so I shouldn't go blaming the whale for all of the damage.)

Indeed. However, I would like to add that I doubt that the corpse had been scavenged by other predators to any large extent as the skin looks fairly intact without obvious damage scars other than the stumps. I suppose if it had been nibbled by fish to any extent the skin would be much more broken up than it appears from these photos.

It maintains its blood-red colour throughout with no obvious scarring or flakes of skin peeling off. The severing of the torso looks fairly clean cut to me and I doubt if it had been in the water very long.
 
Clem said:
Hello OB,

While you're working on your illo, here are a few more whale crumbs to ponder.

Does anyone have any comments? I'm reposting, just in case my earlier edit got overlooked :biggrin2:
 
Hello Olaf,

I still think the spatulate form at the top is the tail, and not an arm/tentacle curled in upon itself; the void at the center looks like a ragged puncture wound to me.

Of course, I'm just guessing about it all, too.

Cheers,
Clem
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Interesting developments; I'm now inclined to believe that this is a dismembered Haliphron, rather than some weird short-mantled squid (contradicting what I said way back in the dark ages).

I've added a plate from an earlier paper we did; unfortunately the images are in black & white (colours are out there, but I cannot find anything on this computer any longer). The thing is basically a poorly differentiated head/mantle and long arms. What you could have in your floating blob is an intact arm, coiling around at the rear of the mantle, looking like a fin.

That was indeed a tricky one. I'm not saying the jury is out, but it is more likely than a mystery squid with a very short mantle and funny fin.
 

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