Solid info on toxins in cephalopods.

Thyroyalgeek the third

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This is a much debated topic i thought i might clear up a little, So instead of going out with a bang i'm going in with one. This is my first post and if you would like to, you can address me as jackson. Thank you, and let's get started. All cephalopods have a little bit of numbing poison in them for killing prey, except for a few species of squid. There are multiple species of VENOMOUS octopus that have dangerous potential with their toxins, these species are hapalochaena fascia, lunulata, maculosa, and I don't believe nierstraszi is considered a valid species yet, so I will not include it. These are the blue ringed octopi. They each contain the following ingredients, tetrodotoxin, the main toxin, histamine, tryptamine, octopamine, taurine, acetylcholine, and dopamine as well. This causes motor paralysis, and respiratory arrest within minutes of exposure. It is enough to kill at least 11 grown men. Next up is the flamboyant cuttlefish! metasepia pfefferi, My favorite on this list, there is rather little information regarding this species which contains similar toxin to the blue ringed octopus but there has been absolutely NO research done extensively on their biology at the time of this threads writing. If there was I would know about it. the other species in the genus metasepia, is metasepia tullbergi. This cuttlefish contains the majority of the same componets as pfefferi, but contains tetrodotoxin too. The main dividing line between toxins in the blue ring and flamboyant cuttle is that the blue ring can exploit the poison in a bite, metasepia sp. Cannot. They have their poisons located in their body, preventing them from being eaten. This upcoming news is what will be shocking. Sepia bandensis and officinalis both contain tetrodotoxin! It is located in the brain, heart, and blood. And last but not least, the paper nautilis. Only the female contains the toxin, as well as being visibly different from the male as well. Even the worlds top scientists haven't the slightest idea what is in the poison! So don't ask me. If you have any questions or I got something wrong, please post below.
 

DWhatley

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Jackson,
If I am not mistaken, there was a study done on the flamboyant several years ago, confirming the expected toxicity of the tissue, hinted at during a documentary. Here is a discussion from 2014 that discusses the state of the unknown at that time. Googling poisonous cuttlefish will point to numerous discussions about the flamboyant but I did not look for a peer reviewed paper.

Unless there is new info, my last reading on the blue ring was that we don't know where the tetrodotoxin comes from and it may be that if we could raise blue rings in captivity (@mucktopus makes a similar comment in the above link), they would not be toxic at all. There is some suspicion that they lose their poison if housed in captivity over a long (relative to their short life) period of time. Your newest info might suggest that the toxin is consumed or part of digestion and stored or eliminated differently among cephs.
 

Thyroyalgeek the third

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Captive bred cephs of the following species: sepia bandensis and officinalis, metasepia pfefferi and tullbergi, as well as multiple species of hapalochaena and have all been captive bred, grown, bred again, and had toxin in them even after numerous generations. This study was at a college and I was lookin through their research papers.
 

DWhatley

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Are you sure about the hapalochaena? I try to keep up with the latest on cephalopod breeding success and I know of no blue ring species that has been born in captivity and survived through an adult stage. Captive hatched, small egg species survival is abysmal for all cephs. If you know of papers showing the captive toxicity of the others, please link an abstract or provide university so that I can dig up the papers as the info is definitely something I would like to have referenced in our Cephalopod species section.
 

DWhatley

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You can add a link in two ways.
If the pasted link is a video, using the first method will embed the video so that it can be played directly from the TONMO site. If the link is some other identifiable URL, it will provide a title. In the second instance, the text is not changed.
 

Thyroyalgeek the third

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Thyroyalgeek the third

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10.1.1.775.2426 (2).pdf this talks about how it is located in terrestrial animals, as well as algae and mollusks. Puffer fish are known to not produce their own tetrodotoxin but get it from their diet, but it seems as though some people think that these cephs produce it on their own, but some think it come from their diet. I rather hate to admit it (although in todays world not surprisingly!) but some of the "solid info" I could have gotten may not have been fact, as stated, as much as theory.
 

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