Simply too depressing

First my response to you neurobadger;

I take no affense to your questions. My reasons for keeping squid is first of all the same for keeping any other animal. It's beautiful and fun to watch. Second I would like to try and breed them though I know its very difficult and expensive. Third, after successfully breeding and raising them, I would like to try and use a few juvenils maybe a few days to a few weeks old and ship them to my self using various methods in the attempt to find one that works consistantly. This I hope will help in future transportation of other species as well.

To Thales' response;

I feel that any animal that can be farm raised sustainably is fair game for any purpose. Keeping the welfare of the animal in mind that is.
 
One thing that made me really work at explaining my ethical stance has been trying to come across as hypocritical. Instead of being hypocritical, it seems better to change your approach. I get the feeling that when people say one thing, then say 'I guess that's hypocritical' that they don't really mean the first thing they said. These kinds of ethics, and ethics in general, are complex and I think we only stifle the discussion when we try to make it simple.
 
neurobadger;178713 said:
I'm fine with it if it's done sustainably, but I seem to remember there's a rather frightening amount of it that isn't.

Cool! Before I start wading in, I'll be trying to understand where you are coming from. :biggrin2:
 
skywindsurfer;178714 said:
First my response to you neurobadger;

I take no affense to your questions. My reasons for keeping squid is first of all the same for keeping any other animal. It's beautiful and fun to watch. Second I would like to try and breed them though I know its very difficult and expensive.

If that is the case you might be better served by rethinking and restating the stuff above that makes for the hypocrisy. I don't think its fair to say that you think keeping animals is generally bad and then say you keep animals because they are fun to watch. :biggrin2:
 
Re Turtle soup - are you ok with it if the turtles are farmed sustainably?
Thales beat me to it. i have eaten the soup that came from a well established turtle farm, we were in the Cayman Islands.

what about Farming in general?

As for the alligator... The hunting of them is highly regulated and here is Florida has been very successful. i was suppose to go this year, but I was not drawn for the lottery.

Frogs are also farmed here in the everglades and I'm pretty sure sustainably, but I am not positive.
 
I've eaten alligator meat. It's good stuff. The main thing is that it comes from an alligator farm. Several alligator farms also participate in conservation and reintroduce a certain portion of the population into the wild, which is easy because reptiles don't imprint.

There's an animal behaviorist named Temple Grandin who specializes in humane treatment of animals destined for slaughterhouses. Here is her webpage: Temple Grandin's Website
 
Thales;178716 said:
Cool! Before I start wading in, I'll be trying to understand where you are coming from. :biggrin2:

It may be useful to the panel in October if I have an understanding of each panelist's perspective, but remember, I'm the moderator, not a panelist, so most of what I'm going to be doing is guiding the discussion and asking pointed questions. If you want to send a few PMs summarizing your general philosophy on cephalopod ethics, I'd appreciate that, and will be talking to the other panelists to get their opinions as well.
 
Thales;178712 said:
Re Turtle soup - are you ok with it if the turtles are farmed sustainably?
The 'end times' are certainly providing a marketing bonanza for Whole Foods and their ilk. Too little, too late, and HUGE profits to be gained with sustainable/organic/biodynamic labeling, all dubiously certified by organizations generally funded by the industries they certify.

Any opinions on the Medea Hypothesis?
 
SteveM;178721 said:
The 'end times' are certainly providing a marketing bonanza for Whole Foods and their ilk. Too little, too late, and HUGE profits to be gained with sustainable/organic/biodynamic labeling, all dubiously certified by organizations generally funded by the industries they certify.

Any opinions on the Medea Hypothesis?

It sounds really, really weird, and not at all scientifically supported. There are no journal articles on Google Scholar in actual reputable journals.

(The "Journal of Cosmology", by the way? It's a joke.)
 
If it walked, crawled or swam, it probably tastes great deep-fried!

We'll eventually snuff ourselves out or the sun will or the earth will . . . . something will eventually do it!!! And after that something else will come along that farts too much and causes too much trouble and it'll have to be snuffed out too.

The unfortunate facts are that big companies make tons of money raping the environment and the only way it will all stop is to make it so they can make tons of money saving the environment. Science will have to find the answer because I fear that simple human compassion won't do it on it's own.
 
Most of you know my feelings on this subject, so no sense in flogging a dead horse.

You make me want to puke.
 

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