She laid eggs...

petromir

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#1
Hello Friends,

my last thread here was about my octo which died after his arm decay. After that I set up a whole new 200L tank and bought another small indonesian reef species which is in the end the only one you can get here in Europe, beside Blue Ring, Wunderpus and Mimic. That octo is healtyh however 10 days after I purchased her she laid eggs which she is protecting under a stone. A few questions please

1) How soon will she die?
2) How about the eggs? Is it possible to raise the small ones?

Thanks!

Markus
 

tonmo

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#2
Sorry that happened - that's pretty fast. What do the eggs look like? Totally clear or are there black dots inside?
 

CaptFish

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#3
1) How soon will she die?
Hard to say exactly,

2) How about the eggs? Is it possible to raise the small ones?
anything is possible, however not many people have been successful, but who knows you may be one of the lucky ones, so i encourage you to try it. octo eggs come in two sizes small and large. The large egged species have been much more successful than the small egged. food has always been one of the main issuses but with ever attempt we learn a little more. so first question is...

how big are the eggs?
 

petromir

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#4
Hi Friends,

just see for yourself, the eggs are very small...
And I can`t find the mother anymore...is she already dead?

I have to check the whole tank again.

Thanks for any advice.

Markus
 

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CaptFish

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#5
strange the mother is absent, I'm not positive but i think the eggs need the mother to survive.
 

Neogonodactylus

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#6
Let's assume this is an Abdopus, probably aculeatus. Death usually comes within a week after the eggs have hatched. This means death occurs about a month after the eggs are laid.

Roy
 

petromir

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#7
Hello,

the mother is there, I found her close to the eggs. Will the mother eat while she protects the eggs? I assume she will not, right? And any chance to raise the small ones?

Thanks again.

Markus
 

Neogonodactylus

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#8
She probably will not eat although brooding females will occasionally take and kill live prey.

Unfortunately, there is almost no chance of rearing the young of a small egged species.

Roy
 

petromir

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#9
Thanks to all for your answers!

Today I was offered an octopus vulgaris from the Mediterranean Sea. I`m not sure about this one as they grow big...maybe too big.
Anybody here who kept one?

Thanks again!

Markus
 

CaptFish

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#10
I have kept the Caribbean vulgaris, which grew huge. i had mine in a 120gallon and i still wonder if maybe it was too cramped.
 

DWhatley

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#12
Vulgaris are probably my favorite "can be kept in a home aquarium" species but the tank size is prohibitive for most and I have yet to keep one (maybe, Little Bit keeps looking and acting like a miniture). Your mediteranean version is larger than our vulgaris but octopus size varies considerably between individuals. Vulgaris are the only larger spieces that I am aware of that has been successfully kept in groups (for the purpose of raising them as food) with minimal animal inflicted deaths. From the for food studies (one where they made cages and stacked them fairly close together) the don't seem to need the roaming space of something like a Cyanea.

Part 1 of the video I just posted in the Raising Octopus From Eggs forum shows the containers used to cultivate vulgaris. I can't seem to find the underwater cage technique but will continue looking and add to the cultivation thread

Note that the videos in the Raising Octopus from Eggs forum will roughly apply to your female but that the species are quite different so age expectations, time to maturity, egg development time and size will be different but vulgaris is also a small egg species.
 

DWhatley

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#14
Have the eggs hatched? They are likely fertile and the mother should live through the hatching but not much longer (a day to a week is common for most species). There is one South American species we are aware of that lays multiple clutches but this is the only one known to survive after the hatchlings are born.
 

petromir

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#15
Hi,

the eggs are gone...but the octo is still alive. However it`s always sitting in the stone where the eggs have been. Let`s see what happens.

Thanks

Markus
 

petromir

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#16
She is sitting in the stone all time, a few times a day you see an arm coming out, not intersted in food, but so far she is still alive. I assume she didn`t eat for a month now...

Take care!

Markus
 

DWhatley

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#17
Most of my females came out on their last day or two and moved about the tank restlessly (similar to male senescence). I did have an O. mercatoris to live 11 weeks beyond hatching and we have seen a few of O. mercatoris live longer than other species after brooding (we have also seen them die within a day or two of hatching though) but that is the only species (other than the South American O. chierchiae, I mentioned that will lay multiple clutches) we have seen live considerably longer than hatching day (or the time eggs would have hatched for infertile eggs). In general, the smaller egg warm water species brood for 2-4 weeks where the larger egg warm water species may brood for 10 weeks, not eating most of that time (the Cold water animals brood longer, up to 3/4 of a year for some observed GPO's). Brooding time is not exact and is easily effected by water temperature but the mother almost always lives until the eggs hatch.

I have questions about the not eating part that are not answered conclusively. One thing that bothers me is hydration. Since most saltwater animals obtain their fresh water from their food, I wonder why brooding females don't dehydrate (and maybe they do). The change in muscle is obvious so living off their own body fits the appearance change but I do wonder if they consume some of the eggs and/or small food (pods and anything you feed the tank like Cyclop-eeze) for water even though they don't eat (or mostly don't eat) during brooding. Keep in mind this is a question with conjecture and no clear observation. I have only had two species to successfully brood and produce live young so I have had limited observation opportunities but feel recording what you see and what comes to mind is important since the hobby is still quite young.
 

petromir

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#18
Well, the octo came out today, but I assume to die. She is still alive but behaves lethargic and the skin looks blotchy...so it came as expected. Attached is an image.

Thanks!
 

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