Sepioteuthis Sepioidea/Lessoniana

Discussion in 'Sources for Cephalopods and Food' started by skywindsurfer, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    My current octopus will be dying soon, and I'm looking either of the squid listed above. Does anyone know where I may be able to acquire one?
     
  2. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    Right now I'm working on locating a local fish market that might carry live animals. I'd prefer either of these two species, but as squid are not easily attainable I will accept any small-medium sized squid.
     
  3. rryyddeerr

    rryyddeerr Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    why are squid not as commonly attainable?
     
  4. Tintenfisch

    Tintenfisch Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    Squid are very, very difficult to keep alive in captivity, even for the short period required to get them live to a fish market. Good long-term results have only been achieved in a couple of professional set-ups worldwide, and even then 'good' is relative (a few months). Live squid are therefore rather difficult to acquire and we generally discourage efforts to keep them at home, since it inevitably ends badly, usually within a few hours to days.
     
  5. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    My plan is to acquire a few small squid (preferably either of the two that I've listed, but at this point any will do) just a few inches or so. I will place a plastic paper back drop across the back of the tank so that the squid can see a solid barrier. Pile enough rocks against one end of the tank to add a three demensional barrier that covers the entire wall to keep the squid from going into that wall. Place a large amount of power heads/pumps on the opposite wall to push a strong current across the entire length (96") of the tank in the hopes that a palaegic squid could stay near the center of the tank with the current allowing them to swim continuously almost like a tredmill. The current will be stronger the closer the animal gets to the surface with the current across the substrate gentle enough to rest. The tank will be in a room with very little traffic. I am also considering placing some sort of design to break up the viewing window as well.
     
  6. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I assume you have already found this article in Science Direct since it is on the first page of a google inquiry but linked it in case you missed seeing it.
     
  7. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    Thanks D. No I didn't see that article. I've read the abstract and it sounds interesting. I'll have to look more into the rest of it. Can I access the full article through that link or is there somewhere I have to go for that?
     
  8. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Locate someone at a local University Library, who is willing to help out?
     
  9. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    We tried to keep some in a 100,000L concrete pond, no go, they still crashed into the walls no matter how we directed the pumps, or aquascaped, added to that square tanks are lethal, they appear to set up some sort of harmonic vibration which destroys their ability to orient themselves! You'll need a cylindrical tank. Feeding is another issue! They will need mega quantities of live food, I don't know if anyone has successfully weaned them onto dead food yet and they may very well turn cannibal! Sorry to be so negative but holding squid in captivity is much much harder than octopus or cuttlefish and really not practical for a home aquarist!
     
  10. busydoingscienc

    busydoingscienc O. bimaculoides Registered

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    I don't know how large of a squid you're thinking of attempting to keep, but it would seem to me that if it were small enough something that would be used for jellyfish might suit your needs (such as a large modified biorb), at least to get started.
     
  11. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    Could you give more information on the design and setup of this pond?

    I know that they say square/rectangular tanks will not work because of collisions with walls. A cylindar tank with a circular flow keeps them centered. Could you tell me more about the harmonic vibration you are talkinng about?

    I had planned on keeping the tank stocked with small fish and crustacean the entire time. I know that squid have the largest appatiet of most cephalopods and cannibalism is a great and most of the time inevitable occurance. I want to have a small school so that my chances of keeping one alive more successfull no matter what the others die of.

    I know it's hard and my hopes for success are not much higher than failure, but I thought it would be a worth while experience to try. Thanks for your input though. I greatly appreciate all of this.
     
  12. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    The squid I'm I'm trying to get are listed above. S. Lessoniana and S. Sepioidea. Both of these squid stay around 8 - 9 inches fully grown and have benthic tendancies being reef small reef squid. I've read that they like to burry in the sand at the bottom of the reefs during the day and feed near night fall. I thought that their small size, their benthic behaviors with the strong(and I mean STRONG) flow from one side to the other might keep them from coliding agains the walls. With such a strong current my thoughts are that the squid would need to stay with it's fins oriented to the current to keep from being pushed into the rocks at the other end. I'm not sure how Jean's comment about harmonic vibrations will affect this. I'll have to find out more about that so I can better understand this hurtle.
     
  13. ceph

    ceph Wonderpus Staff Member Moderator

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    I've worked extensively with S. sepioidea and am one of a small number of scientists and professional aquarists that have kept squid long term in captivity and published peer reviewed work including growth and survival rates. It can be done, but it isn’t trivial.

    Here is a quick version of what works for me. Notice the shipping times and collection methods. I've learned most of this the hard way. . .

    Catch them yourself with the assistance of half a dozen interns or students by herding the squid into a stationary seine net. If the squid are inking, consider gently scaring them more to reduce the amount of ink they have prior to transport. If they are calm, keep them calm.

    Remove them from the seine nets with professional collecting nets – the kind with plastic sides and a screen bottom. Try to keep the squid in the pool of water in the plastic part of the net when transferring them from the seine net to a container you are transporting them in. By doing this you avoid grabbing the squid or taking it out of the water.

    Squid can be taken out of the water to weigh them but this must be done very quickly. I have my interns practice with frozen squid or rubber squid before handling live ones. Live squid squirt, ink and bite which adds additional challenges. Squimish interns are given other important duties.

    Transport by car to the lab ASAP. Do not catch to many. Use big containers. Do not stop. Keep them cool. Try to catch the squid close to the lab so that the transportation is less than 45 min. During transportation, assign a student/intern to baster duty – using a turkey baster to remove ink as needed continuously during the trip. Avoid speed bumps, drive like grandmother.

    Bring containers with extra sea water. Be prepared to stop and do emergency water changes if needed. Usually you can remove the ink with the turkey baster and squirt it at passing tourists, this is a backup.

    Place squid in large fiberglass tanks with soft sides and a cover. . .

    Assign 2-3 students to collect live food. We collected 100s of live silversides every other day in Bermuda. Squid eat a lot and do best on live food.

    Keep non-ceph staff, especially tour groups and development but also including bosses and admin, away from the squid. A sneeze, bump of the tank or rapid hand gesture can set them off. Turn on lights slowly. Reduce or eliminate any sudden changes in the environment.

    Etc

    The reason why you can’t buy squid is that they are unlikely to survive shipping. Cephalopods in general do not ship well. Squid make an art of it. Squid react strongly to environmental changes – turning the lights on in the morning is enough to startle them which may cause them to jet against the side of the tank or leap out of it.

    Eggs that are not ready to hatch ship *much* better but raising the young is a big project. Shipping very small animals may be feasible. Finding a collector will be a challenge. In my experience, hobbyist or professional, if you want squid and they are not local, you will need to collect the eggs yourself, fly them home, and raise up the offspring.

    This is for Sepioteuthis which I view as one of the most hardy genera of squid. . . L. brevis is another good one to try.
     
  14. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    Thanks alot for this bit of information. May I ask you for some links to your papers? I'd like to see how you raised them so that I might have a better understanding of their requirements and your success.
     
  15. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Ok Our ponds are very large, very old concrete boxes! They have constant fresh seawater pumped in ( 38, 000L/hour), through and out. What I mean by a harmonic vibration is any wave, sound etc is magnified which sets up similar vibrations in the statocyst chamber which ruptures it (bit like inner ear infections in humans only worse!).

    We were working with ommastrephids too, which are open ocean squid, I think loliginids are a bit easier but still mega work! Ceph has way more experience than I have so his advice is gold!
     
  16. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    ceph = squid God

    Got it. lol I really hope he's willing to share his articles. I'd love to read about his methods and everything.

    What kind of vibrations will damage the statocyst chamber, and what would creat such waves?
     
  17. ceph

    ceph Wonderpus Staff Member Moderator

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    Ceph =’s learn things the hard way!

    While I’ve published several papers using captive squid data, I’ve not raised squid from eggs. Others have, that work was going on at the NRCC while I was there. My ceph aquaculture claim to fame is being the first to breed and raise deep-sea octopuses in captivity. They were challenging but the issues were different than for squid.

    While keeping squid – and deep-sea octopuses for that matter – is logistically challenging, I and others like Richard Ross started out as hobbyists – just like many TONMO members. For this reason I try to encourage hobbyists and try to make my work available online. However, I also do not recommend keeping squid. My intent here is to paint a realistic picture of what worked for me and the level of difficulty so that you can make an informed decision.

    Like Jean, I was also using large tanks in a flow through system. "Large" means hot tub to swimming pool sized.

    Many of my papers are already available on The Cephalopod Page, specifically here: http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/JWood/cv.php

    While there are some good tips on keeping cephalopods in captivity in some of the papers, especially the first VIE tagging paper, the scientific paper format doesn’t lend itself to including lots of animal care tips. A lot of what I’ve learned was through trial and error. Popular articles, TONMO posts and mentoring seem to be better vehicles for transferring “how to” animal care knowledge. In the future, videos could help improve knowledge transfer.

    Dr. Roland Anderson and I will be publishing a low level paper on keeping squid in captivity. It basically says that squid are difficult. . . which is a common theme here also.
     
  18. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    In the near future, my wife and I are planninng on having a house built for us near the coast. In this house I am trying to get a room dedicated as an entire aquarium (15' deep x 12' wide x 3' high[water level]){aquarium will reack the ceiling} I estimate this to be roughly 4.5 thousand gallons. I know it's still not as large as most people have used for rearing squid, but if I were to get my hands on a few animals how do you think my chances would be for success with this? I'm planning on having a sun roof for natural lighting, mangroves near the far back wall with a strong pump on either side of the mangrooves and maybe some small plants scattered across the rest of the tank leaving it mostly bare. The idea is so that when my stingray that I currently have gets fully grown(roughly 12" disk diameter) He'll have a more comfortable environment than my 24" x 25" x 96" tank.
     
  19. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    And let me just clarify that I know stingrays are natural predators of squid and that I would not have them in the same tank. I just wanted to stay that because of what I've kept with my octopus before and I don't want anyone thinking I would do the same. If I ever kept squid they would be completely by themselfs except for prey items.
     
  20. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    That would be some tank! Does this mean you'll be moving to the coast - guess so, because a tank like that would need daily attention.

    Please keep us updated on your tank plans.

    Nancy
     

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