Sepia officinalis w/ cloudy eyes

Discussion in 'Cuttlefish Care' started by invert.junkie, May 4, 2007.

  1. invert.junkie

    invert.junkie Cuttlefish Registered

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    What can I do? :confused:
    one got it in one eye after being moved to a temp tank, then it spread to the other eye, and now to the other cuttlefish in the tank. :cry:
     
  2. Paradox

    Paradox Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    Not familiar with a specific illness that causes eyes to cloud, but perhaps you should test your water. Maybe this is what occurs with excess ammonia or nitrates.
     
  3. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    could also be bacterial. If the tank water is OK you might try adding some tetracycline to the water.

    J
     
  4. gjbarord

    gjbarord Sepia elegans Staff Member Moderator

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    Eye problems

    Without knowing all of the details there are a few possibilities. If the cuttlefish are getting old then the cloudiness of the eye is quite common and irreversible, kinda of like senescence in octopods. I have also observed eye problems in cuttlefish tanks with high levels of nitrate. Now either of these two possibilities can lead to bacterial infection and the contamination of other cuttlefish but the other cuttlefish in the tank must have been maintaining internal problems that manifested itself once the first cuttlefish showed couldiness in the eyes.
    The move could have also placed additional stress that allowed the infection to expand to vision. The eyes may have been the first observed symptom of a problem but I believe that an internal infection must have been going on. With vision being such an important part of the cuttlefish livelihood, the immune system would protect that part of the body before other parts. That is just a theory that I have but the same sort of thing can be seen in many other animals.

    Greg
     
  5. sorseress

    sorseress Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Interesting first post. :welcome: gjbarord. There will be some people who won't read this thread, so why don't you go to the introduce yourself thread and tell us a bit about yourself? Sounds like you have some experience.
     
  6. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    :welcome: indeed. My creepy google-stalker skills actually show that
    he's marinebio_guy's coauthor on the Nautilus article in the new TFH (which I still haven't found a copy of, grrr.)

    As an interesting side-note, I'd like to point out gjbarord's first post as one that exhibits very good academic writing skills. I had no doubt that this was someone who was experienced, knowledgeable, and informed from just this one post.
     
  7. marinebio_guy

    marinebio_guy Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Greg, what can I tell you about Greg :roll:, He went to school with me and worked with me at the NRCC and still currently works there and also at the Aquarium at Moody Gardens. His work right now is with nautilus and cuttlefish, but he could tell you more.
     
  8. Sato

    Sato Larval Mass Registered

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    Back to the question at hand. Provided it is not from aging and it is bacterial, how would one go about treating it? Could a general anti-biotic simply be applied to food, or would it be more effective to simply treat the water as a whole? I would imagine the former would probably be more effective, but I have little experience when it comes to medicating cuttlefish.
     
  9. gjbarord

    gjbarord Sepia elegans Staff Member Moderator

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    First of all, the problem would seem to be bacterial due to aging. Aging itself does not cause cloudy eyes, etc. The two go hand in hand... But I digress. The probability of bacterial agents focusing only on the ocular region in cuttlefish is low but if this is the case I would recommend a bath rather than oral medication. The main obstacle during bath treatments is providing an appropriate quarantine tank. More often than not the cuttlefish will jet into the side of the quarantine tank once released. This appears to be a reaction to the antibiotic in use. Very soon, though, the cuttlefish will calm down and remain still for the duration. Baths are performed for about one hour, depending on the dosage.

    What type of antibiotic are you thinking of using?

    Greg
     
  10. Sato

    Sato Larval Mass Registered

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    I would most likely use Baytril, however im not sure on the dosage I would use for a bath with Baytril.

    Is there a better choice? I have used Baytril with several other animals with good results, however they were almost exclusively fish so I am not sure how the cuttle would react to it.
     
  11. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    Boyle's book (1991, so may be outdated) specifically mentions in the section on skin ulcers "Treatment with several anti-bacterial agents showed that periodic dipping in solutions of Nifurpirinol (Furnace(R)) at a range of concentrations was effective in reducing mortality and complete healing was achieved in some animals." He goes on to mention Hanlon et al 1984 and Forsythe et al 1987 as useful references for anti-bacterial treatments.
     
  12. gjbarord

    gjbarord Sepia elegans Staff Member Moderator

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    Gregory Lewbart published Invertebrate Medicine, 2006. The section on cephalopods, while very short, lists several possible treatments. Baytril, or enrofloxacin, can be administered intra-venous, orally, or in a bath. The oral dosages are 10 mg/ kg and the bath dosage is 2.5 mg/ L for 5 hours. Be cautious with the dosage as these dosages, as of 2006, are still only empirical values. Keep a close watch on the ventilation rate and overall behavior and if anything seems abnormal, discontinue the treatment immediately.

    I would not say that this book is necessary for cephalopod keepers because out of the 350 pages, only 20 are devoted to cephalopods. But it has good information in those 20 pages. It is also very indicative of what we still don't know about cephalopod disease and treatment. It also has information on other invertebrates that can be used with cephalopods. If you have an extra $150 bucks then get the book.

    Good Luck

    Greg
     
  13. Sato

    Sato Larval Mass Registered

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    I thank you all very much. I deal more in the way of Anthazoans and such and am not all that familiar with cephalopods, however I do find them to be some of the most fascinating animals I have every worked with.

    Mark
     
  14. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Greg,
    I was inclined to look up the book until your last sentence.:sad:
     
  15. Brock Fluharty

    Brock Fluharty Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    I agree. $150? Sheeeeeeesh...
     
  16. Sato

    Sato Larval Mass Registered

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    I have a few more questions for you Greg,

    When you say high nitrate water, what would be considered high? Also, I was thinking about using something stronger then Baytril because one of the cuttles I am dealing with seems to have a very advanced infection. His skirt has pretty much deteriorated and the skin on his dorsal posterior appears to have been rubbed away. I have access to Chloramphenicol, and was wondering what the dosage would be for an injection, provided it wont prove fatal.

    Thanks
    Mark
     
  17. gjbarord

    gjbarord Sepia elegans Staff Member Moderator

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    The recommended ranges for nitrates are 20 mg/ L and under for cephs. I have seen this cloudy eye appearance in tanks that expereince greater than 50 mg/ L for extended periods of time. I do not have my notes on hand so I will get you the dosage for chloramphenicol asap.

    Greg
     
  18. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Is your cuttle S. officinalis? How old is it? What is the size of the tank? The skin on the posterior is susceptible to wearing away if the animal jets backwards into the walls of the tank. S. officinalis do better in a circular or semi-circular tank.
     

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