RESEARCH OPPORTUNITY: comparative study of palatine teeth

Steve O'Shea

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#1
Ed: Feb 2008. I just thought that I'd resurrect this thread on the offchance someone out there wanted to undertake a comparative study of these structures as part of a Masters degree. I've left all other thread content as it was/as posted from day 1. Some aspects of this research have been covered in various papers since, and some shortly will be, but the bulk of it, a large-scale comparative study, never has been undertaken. Any takers?.

I'm taking a huge gamble in placing these images online. An ever-so-slighty exciting opportunity exists for someone to research comparative morphology of palatine teeth in cephalopods, both octopus and squid, linking this to diet, and describing ontogenetic shifts in their structure (in accordance with changes in diet throughout a species life cycle).

No project of this nature has ever been undertaken before; it is a world first.

I've attached a few 'modified' images here (some duplicated in Fossils & History, in a thread titled 'Challenge') to show you what you can expect to see with SEM microscopy (similar images, although not as detailed, can be obtained with light microscopy).

I am certain the shape and distribution of these radular-like structures is of both systematic and ecological significance. The project would involve describing these structures across all cephalopod taxa that we have here (very diverse collections), and examination of squid stomach contents, to ascertain any link between their density, form and distribution and the squid's diet.

Exciting stuff!! Suitable for Masters (if you have some experience) or PhD.

Just a selection of pics follow.

The first image is of the buccal mass, with beaks and beak musculature removed (of the arrow squid, Nototodarus). The radula is pretty obvious, below the salivary papilla. Running down, either side of the buccal mass are the palatine palps, upon the inner face of which you will see dagger-like projections (the palatine teeth). The other two images are close ups of these palatine and true radular teeth in two taxa (a rather large, unknown species of squid; and Nototodarus). They also occur in some species of 'octopus', Vampyroteuthis and most all other octopus and squid taxa (in fact their absence is extremely interesting, and must reflect some specialised diet).

An additional radular-like tooth is sometimes found in the salivary papilla of hole-drilling octopus species; there's so much that we haven't looked at in octopus and squid systematics; the world is your oyster!
 

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tonmo

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#3
:notworth: Too cool. 8)

Sounds like a great project, with significant potential for real and meaningful discovery. I wanna play! :biggrin2:
 

WhiteKiboko

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#6
maybe its just me, but if youre taking a risk posting the photos, shouldnt you at least watermark them? or am i misunderstanding the gamble?
 

Steve O'Shea

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#7
WhiteKiboko said:
maybe its just me, but if youre taking a risk posting the photos, shouldnt you at least watermark them? or am i misunderstanding the gamble?
WK, now you're frightening me!!! I've gone and textured them, bricks and canvass, reduced the quality and all that jazz. Please tell me that's what you see too? No, you didn't misunderstand what I meant; I'd imagine all and sundry would embark on a project of this nature; problem is I'm stretched too thin to embark on all of these things myself, but have to advertise them so that people see some of the things that could be done. It's a gamble - post too little and people are disinterested; post too much and give the game away.

There are many other ideas that I have also, but I'm not prepared to post them all at once. We'll trickle 'em out.
Cheers
O
 

Infusoria

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#8
Steve O'Shea said:
WhiteKiboko said:
maybe its just me, but if youre taking a risk posting the photos, shouldnt you at least watermark them? or am i misunderstanding the gamble?
WK, now you're frightening me!!! I've gone and textured them, bricks and canvass, reduced the quality and all that jazz. Please tell me that's what you see too? No, you didn't misunderstand what I meant; I'd imagine all and sundry would embark on a project of this nature; problem is I'm stretched too thin to embark on all of these things myself, but have to advertise them so that people see some of the things that could be done. It's a gamble - post too little and people are disinterested; post too much and give the game away.

There are many other ideas that I have also, but I'm not prepared to post them all at once. We'll trickle 'em out.
Cheers
O
You should be fine with the photos. The fact you've posted them here now on this date acts like a defacto watermark. Anyway I saw them a while back and can testify :yinyang:

In future however make prints or put them on a cd and mail them to yourself by registered mail. Put that mail unopened in a safety deposit box at a bank and you're sorted. The cd will also have the date you burnt it, on it as info.

I've seen this done before for intellectual property in the design world.
 

Steve O'Shea

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#9
... and here they are, the palatine teeth (reposted) in Vampyroteuthis. Sorry for the deliberate reduction in image quality - I can assure you the non-textured images are rather stunning.
 

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wildman

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#11
Great stuff. I have been looking into various squid species and Vampyroteuthis is really a bizarre specimen. They are all strange in their own alien sort of way as they live in a world which is so different from ours. I don't think you have to worry too much about the images but care should always be taken. i wish I had your resources as the originals must be really stunning.
 

Steve O'Shea

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#12
wildman said:
i wish I had your resources as the originals must be really stunning.
I'm always begging and borrowing Wildman - the trick is to enthuse others, and give them feedback - that way you'd be surprised what doors open (and what different fields of science can off you/the study of cephalopods).

Glad you liked them; it's one of those papers that I've been meaning to finish .... as soon as I deal to all of this administration.
 

chrono_war01

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#13
Um...very interesting? I have no idea as I am very ignorant and its a bit werid. Don't really understand all this. As you see, my brain is a DOS and has a 5 byte memory.
 

Barnstorm

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#14
I wish I could help.

My Major was biology with a philosophy minor. I began work on a PhD. in the philosophy of science hoping to work tying disciplines together but I ran out of $ and did not finish more than a year of grad work.

Now I have a 15 year career in computer networking and security and I teach network engineering Biz 2 Biz.

I still try to keep up reading journals and books for the semi-layman. I keep marine aquaria, own a 32 foot boat and build, own and fly rotorcraft. However, every time I read about new discoveries and research (Mesonychoteuthis, End of the Permian, cephalopod intelligence tests, and our Dr. O'Shea's work) I wonder what would have happened if I had been able to finish my PhD or if any crossover work will ever be possible.

I suppose some day my skills might lead to me flying over the artic looking for mesony’s in a helicopter but for now the only body of water I can reach is the Ohio River and the only mollusks there are clams and zebra muscles!

Sigh…
 

DHyslop

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#15
Is there a fossil record of beaks/palatine teeth? I've never heard of anything way back, but I'm curious if there's anything in Holocene or Pleistocene sediments.

Dan
 

Steve O'Shea

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#16
Oh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! This was the reason for taking those pics!! Some structures reported in the literature are not true radular teeth.
 

Squidman

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#17
If the beak and beak musculature was removed, where were they in the first place?

(buccal mass pic)

Where exactly are the things you were talking about?


Clueless and loving it,
Squidman
 

Squidman

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#18
As to that hole-drilling octo, would that help with guiding or distributing chemicals?
Or maybe burrowing holes?

Clueless, ever so clueless,

Squidman
 

DHyslop

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#19
I'll be starting a paleontology masters next fall. There's about a 50/50 chance I'll get into one of the good vertebrate programs I'm applying to, otherwise I would probably stay here at the University of Wisconsin and do an invert project. The person I would be working with here has done considerable work on evolutionary rates in neogene gastropods. A project like this would be more suitable for me if it could focus more on the ~Quaternary evolutionary history, with conclusions more about evolutionary tempo and mode rather than just the systematics. I imagine such a project would require your proposed study to already be done, however.

Dan
 

chrono_war01

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#20
Wish I could help. Doesn't Messie live in the ANTarctic? Why does a post say artic? :confused:
 

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