Raising juvenile octopus in a pseudokreisel

[OB]

Crab larvae can actually be bred as well, but you'll need to run algae/diatoms alongside as a food source for your food source, oh, and Artemia is also taken by the crab larvae themselves; you'd be running quite a set-up, but I think you're used to multiple species by now

PS: The copper doesn't look like it could be supplemented outside of a food source, enhanced ambient levels will kill your hummelincki paralarvae, i am quite sure.

 

[skywindsurfer]

How would I acquire and culture crab larvae?

I think you're used to multiple species by now

The more the marrier I always say.

PS: The copper doesn't look like it could be supplemented outside of a food source, enhanced ambient levels will kill your hummelincki paralarvae, i am quite sure.

back to square one. Well you know what they say. Variety is the key. Maybe some Cu will get to them in one form or another. Where do the prey naturally get Cu from? Or is it just naturally in their tissue?

 

[skywindsurfer]

Right now I have three different LFS' searching for a large sexually mature male O. Hummelincki but they are all saying that it's unlikely they will be able to get exactly what I want. Does anyone know a reliable source that I could get one from? I tried emailing reefscavengers but their contact email doesn't work.

 

[CaptFish]

How are you going to set up the actual mating? I think Roy uses a tank that has a clear divider so the octopuses can see each other and indirectly meet then he removed the divider lets them mate, then I think he separate the octopuses from each other again. I read that somewhere, I'm not sure if was Roy doing it that was or someone else.

 

[skywindsurfer]

I am going to buy a specific pet carrier that allows for multiple chambers and use a singular divider with small wholes drilled into it to allow only their arms through. Its about 2' x 1' I think but I'm not certain on that. Afterwards I will release the male into the sump and remove the divider allowing the female full access to the entire pet carrier.

 

[OB]

How would I acquire and culture crab larvae?

Most labs would simply allow nature to run its course with an egg laden female crab, that is an almost endless supply of larvae. The Culture takes place in large tanks, a Kreisel would work, again, these larvae feed on both phyto- and zooplankton.

Where do the prey naturally get Cu from? Or is it just naturally in their tissue?

It is in the algae, which in turn acquire it from the water in the form of Cu++ ions, mainly. I am not aware of any ion pumps in the digestive tract or gills of crab larvae or Artemia; passive diffusion appears to be the norm.

 

[skywindsurfer]

Most labs would simply allow nature to run its course with an egg laden female crab, that is an almost endless supply of larvae. The Culture takes place in large tanks, a Kreisel would work, again, these larvae feed on both phyto- and zooplankton.

So would I just grab up an egg laden female crab of any species, through it in a kreisel, and let her release them there, then take out the crab?

 

[OB]

You may find that studying the underlying literature teaches you reality to be a harsh mistress. Commercial attempts to rear crabs from larval stages almost without exception fail for reasons of food borne pathogens that come with the diatoms and rotifers, making a very well constructed antibiotic regimen paramount.

There is hope, however, if you're really serious about this.

http://www.fra.affrc.go.jp/bulletin/bull/bull20/05.pdf

PS: I know this is on 500 liter rearing vessels, but it contains a nice set of references for 1 liter beakers.

 

[skywindsurfer]

To anyone's knowledge, has there ever been a recorded attempt at rearing O. Hummelincki from egg to adult?

 

[skywindsurfer]

There is hope, however, if you're really serious about this.

I am very serious. I know right now it may seem as if I am just a silly boy with a stick, but I am very adiment about cephalopods. I have been for many years, and it is my long term goal to eventually be in a career that will allow me to soley focus on these animals. And maybe one day I will be able to contribute a little something worthwhile back to the scientific community.

 

[OB]

Agreed, and I applaud the enthusiasm with which you're adding your experience to the fray. You should, however, realize, that rearing small egg species to adulthood is very, very hard even for "professionals" to attempt, mainly because we know not as much as we should of how to translate "real life pelagic conditions" into a very limited and easily derailed microcosmos that is the pseudokreisel you wish to give it a go with. Changing prey items over the course of a few mere days may be the essential bit from the octopus' point of view, where we are only "modeling" plankton utilizing a fraction of the number of species available in the wild.

I am not saying that "you don't stand a chance", I am only saying that a thorough investigation of the errors previously made by others (as in, studying papers published by the researchers in question describing their successes, failures, and their interpretations/explanations of both) will really help increase your potential success rate.

It is not an easy task, by anyone's standard. The Vigo people have probably done the most relevant work so far, for as far as your attempts are concerned. Always feel free to put your queries and ideas forward, it urges us all to rethink our own concepts, as well

 

[skywindsurfer]

Thanks for your support. I reallize how difficult it is to do this, that is why I'm getting as much information as possible before I make my attempts. I am even looking for things not tried yet by others. I am curious as to how much nutrition they absorb from the water itself and how long they could be sustainedon just nutrient rich water alone. I read somewhere that paralarvae squid do better in water with higher levels of disolved.organics or something. I'm just wondering if there is something similar for paralarvae octopus.

 

[OB]

Can you say "osmosis"? Further, these paralarvae need protein and fat, alongside the trace elements and nutrients, more than anything else, and they acquire it through food intake, there are no shortcuts. If you want to make an attempt that doesn't end up merely killing your animals, look at how professional aquaculture works. You need clean water, no build-up of excrement pellets and larval corpses, restrictive measures regarding pathogens, and prey items that are totally goldilocks, so, no fat and copper depleted Artemia, if other species (crab species native to the octopus' natural habitat) are required to fit the bill. In all, you'll be setting up algae tanks, crab tanks, some additional stuff such as rotifers, and have a system that allows your paralarvae to be suspended, clean and fed, with outbreak control in place.

 

[skywindsurfer]

Do you think it would be better to use a 1-5 gallin kreisel or empty out my 250 to raise them?

 

[OB]

I have no personal experience, nor any other insights other than those which were derived from delving into relevant papers. So I am not your primary source of information. A Kreisel keeps your paralarvae in suspension, they may or may not require support in this matter, maybe the 250 would work as well, only one way to find out; if it hasn't been done before, compare them side by side. I would suggest a Kreisel to be easier to keep clean?