Planning a new tank, looking for some answers

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by fishguy258, Oct 8, 2005.

  1. fishguy258

    fishguy258 Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Hey guys, Im kinda new here. I was a memeber a while back and have returned now that I have become so interested in these guys again. I'm hoping to be setting up the tank and getting it started here in the next few weeks.

    For a tank, I would like to use a glass Oceanic tank. I belive I read that copper can never have been used in the tank? Just wondering if its really toxic to them and if it like stays in the glass?

    For filtration, I'm planning a wet dry. I will probably make it myself, as its not too hard. I would like to use a large skimmer, I need opinions on the brand to use. Also, I have a fairly large chiller. Would this be needed? I was told somewhere that cold water species live longer, is that true? Or should I ignore that?

    What species should I get for a 75? Im open to just about any suggestion that will work in this tank, warm or coldwater, just so long as its not super expensive and wont kill me:roll:

    I know to keep everything covered well, and they they can escape. I'm taking this slow, dont want to rush it, so if you see anything that Ive missed, please let me know. I want to do this right the first time.

    Please move this if I put it in the wrong section. I know you guys must get these questions a ton, but I really appreciate it, thanks
     
  2. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    Pretty much every question can be answered by reading the articles under "ceph care" (toggle just up on the left)..
    Yes, once copper has been used in the tank, it is worthless as an invertebrate tank, unless you physically remove all of the silicone, and re-glue it...and hope that you didn't miss any.

    Bummer, but that is how it is...better off to just buy a new one, in my opinion. Maybe you could trade it in ?

    greg
     
  3. fishguy258

    fishguy258 Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    I dont have the tank yet, so its not a big deal. My friend has it, he says hes never used copper, but he does use lots of meds so Im not sure if they had copper of not. Is there any way to test it?

    I have read those articles now, and they were a huge help. They just didnt really give me a direction on species I should look into or a skimmer, any ideas for me?

    Thanks
     
  4. Armstrong

    Armstrong Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    If you read the articles, the best species to get for captivity is the Octopus Bimaculodies (O. Bimaculoides) originating on the coasts of california. They aren't really cold-water species. It's true that cold water species do live longer, however...for a 75 gallon tank, im not sure what cold water species could live in a tank that size. A 75 is perfect for an O. Bimaculodies though and my suggestion would do keep one of those first if you ever plan on keeping any octo. Their the best species to have and the most compatible.

    As for the skimmer type, there's a variety of skimmers. I noticed that many members use sea-clone skimmer for their cephs. You can try that, but make sure any skimmer you buy has great performance and can't be obtained by the octo in the tank. That can cause problems. MAke sure your filteration is top-notch and you should have a filter system and protien skimmer together to get the best filtration. This way, any ink, and waste produced can be quickly filtered. Have a net as well.

    If your still sort of new to this ceph keep, my advice would be to get doing lots and lots of research on their biology and captivity keeping as you plan ahead. This way, you'll be aware of any ceph habits that occur and will know how to handle any situations that have already been known ahead of time. Let us know how it goes and good luck.
     
  5. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Problem is that a lot of meds contain copper in trace amounts and that is enough to kill an octo. Can't think of a way to test for it off the top of my head........chemistry is NOT my strong suit!

    J
     
  6. TidePool Geek

    TidePool Geek O. vulgaris Registered

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    Hi FishGuy,

    Having a good sized chiller will certainly give you more latitude (pun absolutely intended) in choosing a species. The species that is probably the easiest to obtain, O. bimaculoides, prefers cool but not cold water (60 to 70F or so). Depending on where you live that temp could require a chiller to maintain it. O. vulgaris is another species that can often be found that might like somewhat warmer temps (smaller power bill for the chiller!). OTOH: These fellows are more than half again the size (and up to 5 times the weight) of a bimac and your 75 might be marginal. Another species is O. rubescens which is a fairly small octo (about 2/3 the size of a bimac) that prefers water in the 50 to 55F range. These guys haven't been on the pet market in the past - or at least not much. OTOH: The folks at Octopets were apparently planning to raise some of these as well as some Rossia pacifica pacifica squid. I have no idea how that project is going. OTOH: If you live in the beautiful but increasingly crowded Pacific NW you can catch your own with nothing more sophisticated than an old beer bottle and some sort of buoy - you don't even need bait!

    As to the idea that cold water species live longer, I think that's a case of data collected in one circumstance being applied to an unrelated situation. Generally speaking, just about any cold-blooded sea creature will have a slower metabolism when it's living at the lower end of its natural temperature range. You could reasonably expect a bimac kept at 60F to eat less, grow more slowly, and live longer than one that is kept at 70F. Whether that difference in metabolism would be noticeable in the context of a home aquarium is a somewhat more involved question that will be left as an exercise for the reader. OTOH: I don't think you can make any blanket statements about cold water species being longer lived than their tropical cousins.[You might be interested in the data available on CephBase at http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/spdb/spdb.cfm since it has max size, preferred temp, and normal lifespan expressed in both days and degree days as well as a short ton of other useful stuff.]

    Calorifically yours,

    Alex
     
  7. fishguy258

    fishguy258 Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    awsome guys, thanks for the help, its much appreciated. The O. vulgaris interests me. Is a 75 large enough? Im guessing it would be fairly cramped with rocks and stuff, but Im still learning. If I wanted to just go the bimac route, Im guessing I'll still need the chiller as summers here get pretty hot, up to about 100 F. I live in IL if your wondering. Anyway, thanks again guys, more questions will come soon Im sure
     
  8. Armstrong

    Armstrong Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    For an O. Vulgarus, a 75 isn't large enough. You would need a tank over 100 gallons to keep an O. Vulgarus because they can grow over 2 feet long in arms length. They get large and the larger the tank, the better. It should be well over 100 gallons though at least to keep it at a comfortable environment.
     
  9. fishguy258

    fishguy258 Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    alright, I wont go with that species then, thanks for the warning. I'm thinking bimacs my best choice right now, that sound about right?
     
  10. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    A bimac is a good choice and it would do very well in a 75 gallon tank, although 50 is the minimum. You could very well need a chiller. I got by in Texas by turning the air conditioner down quite low and using a fan on the sump.

    Be sure to read the Bimac Care Sheet - click on the Ceph Care button above.

    Nancy
     
  11. Armstrong

    Armstrong Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Ya, 75 is definately fine for a bimac. The limit is 50 gallons, so a 75 if better. Just please make sure you do as much research on their biology and captivity purposes as much as you can..especially on this website. I also recommend printing some of the ceph-care pages off this site to look at for a reference incase something goes wrong....or incase you need forgotten info. Good luck.
     
  12. fishguy258

    fishguy258 Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Thanks everyone.

    Belive me, I wont even think about getting one for several more months. I plan to set up the tank here in the next few weeks, let it cycle with live rock and sand, add a few fish to keep stuff moving.

    As for the skimmer, one person said seaclone, any others? I havent heard good things about them, and ontop of that, I think Id rather have an in sump skimmer
     
  13. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    For ideas about skimmers and other equipment, have a look at the thread (sticky) at the very top of the Tank Talk forum.

    Nancy
     
  14. fishguy258

    fishguy258 Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Thanks for the tips.

    Looked into that tank, unfortionatly its had copper used in it before. Does acrylic have the same problem? I have a chance at buying ~100 gallon one for a fairly good price assuming it doesnt have that problem like galss does
     
  15. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

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    The consensus seems to be that the copper makes its way into the silicon and into the live rock/gravel, places from which it will slowly seep back out. Given that, an acrylic tank should be immune, but to be honest, I personally wouldn't risk it if I knew copper was used; particularly if I could still buy another tank.

    If I could go back in time I'd get an acrylic tank though because most come reef-ready: that is, pre-plumbed for a sump.

    Dan
     
  16. tjohnson

    tjohnson Wonderpus Registered

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    Are you looking for a complete set up, ex. Tank, stand, hood? Becasue you should be able to get like a 60G (just tank) for around 60 bucks. Or at least I can here.
     
  17. fishguy258

    fishguy258 Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Just the tank. I have no idea if there has been copper in the acrylic, I just figured because of the lack of silicon itd be safe.

    Its not drilled, but I plan to have a friend drill it for me. And unfortionatly around here tanks are super overpriced
     
  18. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    Hmmm...an interesting point. Acrylic does not stain from using copper, so I would imagine the chelate would not be able to hold onto the plastic in any toxic levels.
    Any of you have experience with this?

    greg
     
  19. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Some of our display tanks are acrylic, and the copper can get into the fittings but as for the tank itself??? course ours are cylindrical so there is silicon present. Not much help I know but unless you can find out for sure I'd go a new tank every time.

    J
     
  20. fishguy258

    fishguy258 Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    hmmm, conflicting opinoins. If it doesnt stick to the acrylic, and their are no seams or fittings, it should be good right? I want a new tank, but Im only 17 and have lots of other stuff to pay for right now too
     

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