ok everyone here are REEF BUGS!

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by joefish84, May 31, 2006.

  1. joefish84

    joefish84 Sepia elegans Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    1
    well here they are. im in the process of hatching the first batch with takes approx. 30 min. i guess. but heres the pics. anyone who wants some let me know and we can work out getting in touch with the supplier or something
     

    Attached Files:

  2. joefish84

    joefish84 Sepia elegans Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    1
    kdf
     

    Attached Files:

  3. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Cute packaging! I want to see the little guys...
     
  4. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,713
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joe,

    Do you think it would be possible to get a detailed compositional breakdown from the manufacturer? What genera in what proportions?

    Dan
     
  5. joefish84

    joefish84 Sepia elegans Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    1
    from what i can tell it looks like lots of cyclopces, some sort of green colored plankton some small brown balls which im guessing are some sort of copopod or mysid shrimp egg, and small little white slivers that im guessing are the latter also. anyway ill keep yall updated on what comes out of this
     
  6. joefish84

    joefish84 Sepia elegans Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    1
    i think that alot of that information may be classified from the public knowledge but ill see what i can do.
     
  7. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    11
    Didn't someone have one of those USB microscope webcam gadgets from thinkgeek? That'd be pretty good for assessing the little beasties.... can't remember who, though; someone with baby cephs or eggs, tho.
     
  8. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,713
    Likes Received:
    3
    That would be a pretty silly thing to keep proprietary, IMO: if I was going to make a copy-cat product it wouldn't really matter what the proportions were. There's no risk associated with giving out that information, and tons of risk if you keep it secret: I suspect most reefkeepers would pass on this unless they knew it was pest-free.

    Dan
     
  9. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,713
    Likes Received:
    3
    OK, I just had a read through of the product website and am now much more skeptical.

    http://www.marcweissaquariumproducts.com/reef_bugs.htm

    That means most of this is detritus: probably a lot of bioclastic material like diatom or foraminifera tests. The only things living are microbes. There are no amphipods, copepods, mysis or any other pelagic metazoans in here.

    Dan
     
  10. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    69
    Ah, a Marc Weiss product. I don't trust them with 8 10 foot poles.
     
  11. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    As far as I can tell, this is skeletons of diatoms and other dead organisms coated with bacteria. Now, this may feed copepods and other small organisms that you want to culture in your tank, but it will not be macroscopic organisms to replace live pods.

    I was wondering about the product anyway because I was under the impression that it was going to be "freeze-dried" pods. I know that copepods and amphipods carry their eggs, so I had this image of someone scraping the little eggs off of the females...

    The reason brine shrimp can be sold dry is because they are adapted to survive when their water dries up. They encyst and can survive in suspended animation. Rotifers and Tardigrades can also do this.

    Maybe bacteria is good for your reef system, I don't know, but it's not going to help my ceph...
     
  12. joefish84

    joefish84 Sepia elegans Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    1
    i think your right about it being to feed cop. populations... but for a reef tank this stuff is great because its what all the corals feed on. now in my case the octo is in my reef tank. this means that not only will my corals benifit but it will aslo feed and promote copopod populations which in turn will feed the baby octos later... the cyclopses and other small planktonic creatures are very good for reef tanks though.
     
  13. joefish84

    joefish84 Sepia elegans Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sept. 2005: newborn seahorses at Bill Al’s Aquarium Super Center, Tamarac Florida were fed Reef Bugs. They willingly ate the product in a bare, newly set up tank. We know the Bugs stimulate copepods which seahorses feed on, but there were none in this aquarium. The product was then tried on the parents who resided in an established reef tank. They ate both the product and the pods that came out to feed on the Reef Bugs.
    January, 2006: Alicia Geddings of Afishyonados, an aquarium shop in Sumter, South Carolina spawned, and is rearing wolf eels on an initial and early stage diet of Reef Bugs. The story and photos can be found at: columbiamarineaquariumclub.org Go to forums, then to “Fish talk” and the wolf eel story and photos can be found to begin on January 5th. So far, two broods have been brought through the larval stage and are doing well.There is also reference to coral, polyp and copepod growth in the wolf eel thread and elsewhere in the forum .


    just for proof of eel larva and young feeding on this here are the quotes from the official website of the producer. also as you can see that baby sea horses fed on reef bugs. sea horse babies are also just as hard to feed as octopus young....
     
  14. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    69
    Thats what the bottle says. If they actually do is another story.
    There are many products that claim to do what this one does. Interestingly enough, most of them don't list ingredients so most reefers don't use them. Traditionally, Marc Weiss products say they do bunches of stuff, but it is impossible to tell as all the evidence is anecdotal at best, and most of them are considered snake oil.

    I don't know. Seems to me like you are putting detritus in your tank to rot or for the pods to eat. I think if you fed lots of Phyto-feast or other pod food you would get the same results. However, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't add things to my reef that I don't know what they actually are. I especially am leery of the 'small planktonic creatures' part because almost no one has the means to actually test for them.

    This kind of thing is an ongoing reefing debate. :D
     
  15. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    69
    This product isn't 'brand new', so if baby sea horses actually ate it, the sea horse people should be talking about it a lot - they don't seem to be doing so. I couldn't slog my way through the several wolf eel threads to try to find the posts he is talking about and I think it is suspect that he doesn't just link it directly.

    Weiss products all say they do amazing things (one claims to cure ich and feed your filter feeders among other claims) but there is never any real evidence to say so, just claims by the manufacturer.
     
  16. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,713
    Likes Received:
    3
    These claims are pretty outrageous. Even the manufacturer's website says this mix is mostly detrital grains with some "microbes" added in. Think about it, Joe--how healthy would a seahorse be if it was eating pieces of limestone?

    I have a geological background so I find this very amusing--instead of simulating the offshore trophic environment, this product is simulating the offshore sedimentary deposition! ODP eat your hearts out.

    If your local club is into this, I have a bridge in New York and a Moller sky car they might be interested in, too.

    Dan
     
  17. Illithid

    Illithid Vampyroteuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, I understand what you guys are saying about the detrius, but check out this thread -it is from a club member who raised wolf eel hatchling on them. Very impressive.
    http://www.columbiamarineaquariumclub.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=19&t=1488&hl=reef bugs&st=15

    I am setting up my small hex for bandensis and simple corals-this seems to be a decent product to try, not to replace amphipods, but for hatchling octos and amphipod food. I am very interested in raising the microbiological diversity of my tanks substrate. I would love to have growing sponges and splitting colorful shrooms like in the thread. No, my big tank won't need these for the Vulgaris, but I still want to have pods and such-even if they aren't food for the ceph.
     
  18. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,713
    Likes Received:
    3
  19. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    69
    I have had growing sponges and splitting colorful shrooms without the addition. I am now adding reef nutrition products because I know what is in them to see if I see a difference. I guess the point is, you simply don't need any miracle additions to have a thriving reef tank.

    I am not sure what the baby wolf eels were supposed to be eating out of the box of 'reef bugs'.

    I would like to see a simple study with the stuff, but if history holds, Weiss won't do it himself.
     
  20. Illithid

    Illithid Vampyroteuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can raise eel hatchlings on baker's yeast?
     

Share This Page