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Octopus

Hajar

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#1
Here's a fine little octopus from the Lebanese Cretaceous, roughly 5 cm across (armspan). Mouth, ink sack and other internal features are visible, but I can't make out stylets or gladius yet. I'll make some close-up images later.
 

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DWhatley

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#2
How would you determine and octopus fossile from a squid fossil since we have some today that are iffy?
 

CaptFish

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#4
That is SOOOO cool, I have never seen one of those before....Finally a fossil that I can tell what I'm looking at!
 

Terri

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#5
Wow! Am I correct in saying that there are very, very few of these fossils found to date...maybe a dozen or so?
 

SabrinaR

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#6
I'm with Capt. I can never tell what they are from the rock! Thats very cool.
 

Hajar

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#8
D, each of the other coleoids in this fauna has a distinctive elongate gladius (e.g. Glyphiteuthis, Rachiteuthis, Boreopeltis, Dorateuthis). The octopods have either a pair of vestigial gladius plates (Keuppia, Palaeoctopus) or a pair of tiny stylets (Styletoctopus). Then there's the shape!

Kevin, in the lower image I've drawn over the photo in powerpoint and set the transparency of the shape to 90%. This is how I made these drawings too.

Capt. and Sk, I also find it very easy to imagine this one alive!

Terri, true, not many of these have been found.

I've just taken a few close-ups (attached). The soft parts show beautifully in UV light, but I haven't worked out how to make a good photo of this yet.
 

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DWhatley

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#9
Do you or Kevin take a portable UV when you go hunting (especially Kevin since he camps)? I am assuming the soft body parts "glow" like white using the ultra violet and would think Terri might find something interesting on a night hunt with one.

The shape is what made me wonder (not the arms, they certainly look cephy but oddly uniform, unlike the ones we normally see in the wild that are almost always missing parts). The beak seems to be very wrongly placed for an octopusor am I looking at it incorrectly yet again by assuming the indentation is the beak area.
 

Architeuthoceras

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#10
dwhatley;165750 said:
Do you or Kevin take a portable UV when you go hunting (especially Kevin since he camps)? I am assuming the soft body parts "glow" like white using the ultra violet and would think Terri might find something interesting on a night hunt with one.
No, I don't take a UV light with me. Most of the fossils out here are replaced with calcite and most of the matrix is limestone or shale, limestone is mostly calcite and shale has a lot of calcite in it (calcite makes up about 4% of the total weight of the earth), so they would all show up the same color. At home I have seen very few of my fossils show up a bright and/or different color under UV light (unlike all the old '60s posters on my walls :sly:).
 

DWhatley

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#11
unlike all the old '60s posters on my walls
I had intentionally refrained from mentioning the period of time they were a social must have :old: because Hajar and Terri would not remember.
 

Hajar

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#12
I could use the UV lamp for watching scorpions at night, but it's not very powerful so I'd have to get quite close. I had some fun with one of the Lebanese quarry owners on the weekend - we took a selection of specimens to a shop selling UV lamps and tried out each lamp in turn. Wonderful to see things appear that couldn't be seen with the naked eye - a juvenile skate (Cyclobatis) was a complete surprise.

That indentation D is the ink sack. Here attached is a very preliminary sketch of the animal (I've just been looking at illustrations of octopus anatomy). There are more fine structures above the area of brown stain and also in the area between the mouth and the mantle.
 

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Terri

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#13
Very cool Hajar! Your and Kevins' fossils seem so much more fascinating than my old battered things, that I am never sure if I should be posting them or not! :hmm:
 

Terri

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#14
dwhatley;165764 said:
I had intentionally refrained from mentioning the period of time they were a social must have :old: because Hajar and Terri would not remember.
Actually "D" I am also quite old(not as old as Kevin, at 106:sagrin:) the posters are all gone but I do have an old lava lamp around here somewhere.

The visual of myself out night hunting gave me a good laugh, I am known to be a little clutzy, and am lucky not to have harmed myself during the daylight hours! I could borrow my sons night vision contraption, I would also have to strap my shotgun on somewhere (I have seen coyote tracks in the mud where I'm hunting now) along with various hammers and things attached to my person..:goofysca:funny visual
 

Architeuthoceras

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#15
dwhatley;165764 said:
I had intentionally refrained from mentioning the period of time they were a social must have :old: because Hajar and Terri would not remember.
Terri;165778 said:
Actually "D" I am also quite old(not as old as Kevin, at 106:sagrin:) the posters are all gone but I do have an old lava lamp around here somewhere.
:rainbow: Far out!!
 

Architeuthoceras

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#16
Hajar;165775 said:
That indentation D is the ink sack. Here attached is a very preliminary sketch of the animal (I've just been looking at illustrations of octopus anatomy). There are more fine structures above the area of brown stain and also in the area between the mouth and the mantle.
I thought the indentation was the beak also :oops: Thank you for the sketch, that really helps.

Terri;165777 said:
Very cool Hajar! Your and Kevins' fossils seem so much more fascinating than my old battered things, that I am never sure if I should be posting them or not! :hmm:
The Ordovician was a long time ago, fossils from then out here are just as battered. I don't think we will find anything as well preserved, but they are still fascinating, post away!!! :smile:
 

DWhatley

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#18
not as old as Kevin, at 106
hummm, that makes me 107 :shock:, Annie Oakley

Hajar, thanks for the clarification. I am still very crude at identifying body parts but knew that would not be right for an octopus, no matter how you smushed it given that evidence suggests they have not changed much since first fossil discovery. I have yet to dissect one of my octos after preserving a few of them but should do that one of these days to see what I can identify on the inside. Perhaps when my granddaughter takes biology (still a couple of years away) we can set up a project for a larger one that never went to the intended home.
 

OB

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#20
I know Hapalochlaena species take the bisquit, psychedelicallywise, but I've always been a big fan of Octopus mototi.

Back on topic, I've taken the liberty of enhancing contrast somewhat on your photograph of the specimen, trying to locate the beak, which might indeed be the structure you indicated as such.... Not sure, however, whether this would be a lower or upper half, my suspicions pointing towards the latter.

 

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