Octopus

Discussion in 'Cephalopod Fossils' started by Hajar, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    Here's a fine little octopus from the Lebanese Cretaceous, roughly 5 cm across (armspan). Mouth, ink sack and other internal features are visible, but I can't make out stylets or gladius yet. I'll make some close-up images later.
     

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  2. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    How would you determine and octopus fossile from a squid fossil since we have some today that are iffy?
     
  3. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    Great fossil Hajar!! The arms show up a lot better on the bottom photo, is that photo processing or something else?
     
  4. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    That is SOOOO cool, I have never seen one of those before....Finally a fossil that I can tell what I'm looking at!
     
  5. Terri

    Terri Sepia elegans Registered

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    Wow! Am I correct in saying that there are very, very few of these fossils found to date...maybe a dozen or so?
     
  6. SabrinaR

    SabrinaR Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Registered

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    I'm with Capt. I can never tell what they are from the rock! Thats very cool.
     
  7. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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  8. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    D, each of the other coleoids in this fauna has a distinctive elongate gladius (e.g. Glyphiteuthis, Rachiteuthis, Boreopeltis, Dorateuthis). The octopods have either a pair of vestigial gladius plates (Keuppia, Palaeoctopus) or a pair of tiny stylets (Styletoctopus). Then there's the shape!

    Kevin, in the lower image I've drawn over the photo in powerpoint and set the transparency of the shape to 90%. This is how I made these drawings too.

    Capt. and Sk, I also find it very easy to imagine this one alive!

    Terri, true, not many of these have been found.

    I've just taken a few close-ups (attached). The soft parts show beautifully in UV light, but I haven't worked out how to make a good photo of this yet.
     

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  9. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Do you or Kevin take a portable UV when you go hunting (especially Kevin since he camps)? I am assuming the soft body parts "glow" like white using the ultra violet and would think Terri might find something interesting on a night hunt with one.

    The shape is what made me wonder (not the arms, they certainly look cephy but oddly uniform, unlike the ones we normally see in the wild that are almost always missing parts). The beak seems to be very wrongly placed for an octopusor am I looking at it incorrectly yet again by assuming the indentation is the beak area.
     
  10. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    No, I don't take a UV light with me. Most of the fossils out here are replaced with calcite and most of the matrix is limestone or shale, limestone is mostly calcite and shale has a lot of calcite in it (calcite makes up about 4% of the total weight of the earth), so they would all show up the same color. At home I have seen very few of my fossils show up a bright and/or different color under UV light (unlike all the old '60s posters on my walls :sly:).
     
  11. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I had intentionally refrained from mentioning the period of time they were a social must have :old: because Hajar and Terri would not remember.
     
  12. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    I could use the UV lamp for watching scorpions at night, but it's not very powerful so I'd have to get quite close. I had some fun with one of the Lebanese quarry owners on the weekend - we took a selection of specimens to a shop selling UV lamps and tried out each lamp in turn. Wonderful to see things appear that couldn't be seen with the naked eye - a juvenile skate (Cyclobatis) was a complete surprise.

    That indentation D is the ink sack. Here attached is a very preliminary sketch of the animal (I've just been looking at illustrations of octopus anatomy). There are more fine structures above the area of brown stain and also in the area between the mouth and the mantle.
     

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  13. Terri

    Terri Sepia elegans Registered

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    Very cool Hajar! Your and Kevins' fossils seem so much more fascinating than my old battered things, that I am never sure if I should be posting them or not! :hmm:
     
  14. Terri

    Terri Sepia elegans Registered

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    Actually "D" I am also quite old(not as old as Kevin, at 106:sagrin:) the posters are all gone but I do have an old lava lamp around here somewhere.

    The visual of myself out night hunting gave me a good laugh, I am known to be a little clutzy, and am lucky not to have harmed myself during the daylight hours! I could borrow my sons night vision contraption, I would also have to strap my shotgun on somewhere (I have seen coyote tracks in the mud where I'm hunting now) along with various hammers and things attached to my person..:goofysca:funny visual
     
  15. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    :rainbow: Far out!!
     
  16. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

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    I thought the indentation was the beak also :oops: Thank you for the sketch, that really helps.

    The Ordovician was a long time ago, fossils from then out here are just as battered. I don't think we will find anything as well preserved, but they are still fascinating, post away!!! :smile:
     
  17. Terri

    Terri Sepia elegans Registered

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    :rainbow:Groovey!
     
  18. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    hummm, that makes me 107 :shock:, Annie Oakley

    Hajar, thanks for the clarification. I am still very crude at identifying body parts but knew that would not be right for an octopus, no matter how you smushed it given that evidence suggests they have not changed much since first fossil discovery. I have yet to dissect one of my octos after preserving a few of them but should do that one of these days to see what I can identify on the inside. Perhaps when my granddaughter takes biology (still a couple of years away) we can set up a project for a larger one that never went to the intended home.
     
  19. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    Speaking of psychedelic, some of these octopuses have fairly wild colour designs.

    Terri, you're out finding things; who knows what wonders you may discover.
     
  20. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    I know Hapalochlaena species take the bisquit, psychedelicallywise, but I've always been a big fan of Octopus mototi.

    Back on topic, I've taken the liberty of enhancing contrast somewhat on your photograph of the specimen, trying to locate the beak, which might indeed be the structure you indicated as such.... Not sure, however, whether this would be a lower or upper half, my suspicions pointing towards the latter.

    [​IMG]
     

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