Octopus Food

[Ryan Smith]

Im not really interested in mercs. They are very small, and i kinda want a larger octo. The only chance i have now is that my dad will think they are cool and understand that the guy at the fish store knew absolutley nothing about octopi. My dad alredy said i could get a 40gal, but after the guy at the fish store said 20gal now my mom is set on a 20 gal max. THE GUY DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT KIND OF OCTOPI HE WAS SELLING!!! HOW CAN HE RECCOMEND A TANK SIZE!?!? The only reason i was still going to buy ftom them was because they were helpful and said they were gonna call the supplier. (that and they have fair tank and other stuff prices)

 

[DWhatley]

Unfortunately, even the collectors know very little about octopuses. Most have difficulty with species and know nothing about a proper captive environment. Invite your dad to do some reading on TONMO. Additionally, Nancy and Collin (staff members) have written a book, Cephalopods Octopuses and Cuttlefishes for the Home Aquarium (available at Amazon). A published book is likely to be taken (by your parents) as a vaild authority where they may be skeptical about forums and feel that an LSF SHOULD know proper care for what they are selling.

 

[Ryan Smith]

Well, I still might be able to get one. The main concern (mostly of my moms) is the size of the tank and if it breaks the water damage. I dont think she gets quite how difficult it is to break a fish tank. I hit one with a metal baseball bat once, and nothing happened... My dad kinda thinks they are cool so I think hes on my side. *hopes for the best*

 

[DWhatley]

Your mom has some semivalid concerns. Not so much for tank breakage but for potential water damage. Saltwater tanks are messier than freshwater ones and you need to keep that in mind when you establish one. You will also have on going expenses for obtaining or making RO/DI water (you will need both fresh for top off and saltwater for water changes). Octopuses are not the easiest nor the cheapest of saltwater animals to keep and you should think about getting saltwater experience under your belt before rushing into trying to keep any of the more challenging animals. Getting your dad intrested and involved in learning the saltwater environment might help you succeed not only with your mom but also with keeping your pet.

 

[Ryan Smith]

Well my dad has always been a water guy. first a commercial fisherman as a kid and now in the coast guard. But Im again starting to consider a merc. Can anyone give me a compairison between merc, hummel, an the other caribean dwarf. Baerius or whatever? can you please give me needed tank sizes, any other info you can include, and an oppinion of which you would rather have? explanations why would be helpful too. Im still kinda deciding as my lfs gets all of those kinds. As much info as you can give about all are appreciated. Oh, and my friend wants to know if a merc can live in a 10 gal tank. I told him yes but he wants one of your oppinions. Thanks so much

 

[DWhatley]

I would suggest a 20 over a 10 for any dwarf and then you need to do regular and consistent water changes. The 20's are usually the same footprint as a 10 but taller so they don't take up a lot more room but hold a lot more water. As with all octo tanks, it is a good idea to drop the water level a couple of inches below the top to minimize escape attempts and the taller tank accomodates this well. I would also recommend some type of all in one skimmer filter system (I use a Skilter but that is mostly because of the needed foot print for my hex). You can keep a pair in a 20 and if you luck out with males, you may achieve some limited interaction. That being said, we are still enjoying our little Sleazy who never leaves her den (as far as we can tell) but I don't think she is brooding.

Take some time to look at the sticky post under Journals and Photos in the List of Our Octopuses threads 2008 and 2009 (growing list in 2010). Those three posts show the species and are linked to keepers journals with photos, videos and interactions recorded.

You have learned a little about the mercatoris in that they are dwarfs and nocturnal and not overtly interactive. The males are more active than the females (IME).

The other Caribbean dwarf is the joubini and we rarely see them. I likely had a post hatch female at one time and Sedna's Pandora was likely one as well. I know of no way you can order one and most collectors/fish stores that advertise them usually have a mislabeled mercatoris.

Hummelincki is a hard call on a tank. I have had two terrific males that were relatively large and would not recommend anything smaller than a 50-55 gallon tank with a 10-20 gallon sump but I have had two females that were much smaller and could easily live in a 35 gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump. Additionally, trying to find a hummelincki is hit and miss and no one calls them that or by their older name, filosus. You might see them listed as a Caribbean two spot or Caribbean bumble bee but sometimes they are listed as bimacs and sometimes just as Atlantic common brown. The later really means they have no clue what species it is and it could easily be a briareus, mercatoris or hummelincki.

Briareus is the most beautiful of the Caribbean group and if you will take the time to look through the journals you will see some stunning photos. Unfortunately, it my be the least intelligent or at least the least consistent when it comes to interaction. It is also the largest that we commonly keep and needs a minimum of 65 gallons for movement and preferably a sump for hardware.

 

[Ryan Smith]

Is there anyway to distinguish a male from female octopus? I think i might be able to get a 40 gal which would be fine for a female. but not for a male. Im guessing there is no way to tell?

 

[DWhatley]

Here is a link to my best shot and identifying a male octopus. There are pictures of 4 species and a relatively short write-up.

 

[Ryan Smith]

Thank you very much. Im goin to try and get a female (for size purposes) Too bad i cant get a larger tank, Iv heard that males are more friendly, but with positive interaction from a young age im sure i can get a active octo. 1 more question. Once you have established that you are not dangerous or food you can actualy have the octos sit on your hand right? I read the bite profiles and none seem too bad (minus the swollen one) I didnt see any hummelcki bites either. Because tonmo members dont have them or they dont bite often. Why can pet stores sell blue rings? They have a high chance of killing you seeing as there shouldnt be any anti venom in the U.S... That irratates me, a fish store owner would offer a 15 yr old kid a deadly octopus... Why no sell cobras to 5 yr olds... but oh well i guess that means you shouldnt get an octo without Tonmos help.

 

[davelin315]

Ryan, where in the DC area are you? Shoot me a message as I am very familiar with most of the stores in the DC metro area, moreso on the VA side. You're not by any chance RyanS on WAMAS, are you? Anyway, that's a good place to look for a used tank. You also just missed the auction of all of the stock left from a store that closed down in Alexandria. Could have gotten a sweet deal on a bunch of tanks! I can also give you some leads on some good stores that will not steer you wrong in the area, although most will not try and get an octopus for the most part. You can go and see them before buying, though, at a store in Southern MD, just south of DC, Roozens. They are a wholesaler and a retailer and they often get them in.

 

[Omega]

blue rings are allowed to be imported because there are little to no federal regulation of aquatic species. you will notice many websites that are based out of Indonesia dont even warn that blue rings are in fact deadly. There is no antivenom anywhere however. Blue rings carry two toxins, the tetrodotoxin(found in a few other aquatics, including a puffer fish which is a delicacy served in japan as one wrong cut by a chef will kill you) is the main threat and is produced by bacteria in their saliva. The tetrodotoxin(a nuerotoxin) interferes with the nerves, basically rendering your vascular system paralyzed because the organs no longer get the commands to function[this is due to ion channels shutting down, your cells no longer can pump sodium and potassium into the cell which causes a failure of your nervous system to fire action potentials which are the source of signals in the nervous system]. the only treatment is artificial respiration that must be initiated within minutes of the bite, some bites if brief you might survive. most of the time toxin has gotten into you, there is simply no treatment and death is inevitable.

we actually just studied the effects of tetrodotoxin in my anatomy class this week

..this will probably get the thread moved..but it seems a necessary comment all the same.

 

[User Name]

Hes in AA county (we are neighbours) The store we went to is house of tropicals.

 

[Ryan Smith]

yeah... Well thanks for all of them help. Is owning octopi a fairly new thing? how is it no one knows much about them? you would figure a pet store would know a lot... but this is generally not the case.

 

[davelin315]

Hmmm... that's a bit far for me, have you checked out CMAS for reputable stores? I don't know too much about them, but there are some reviews on WAMAS. The only thing I do know about them is that one of our local members with a greenhouse supplies them with some corals.

As far as not knowing that much, I think it's because people kept them a lot before, but knew relatively little about them. Nowadays, people are more conscientious, well some are, and try to learn more about them, hence boards like this being successful places to go for information.

 

[DWhatley]

Ryan,

I wish it was as easy as saying I want to buy THIS kind of octopus let alone specify a sex. If your LFS has them in stock from time to time AND you can identify the octo species yourself AND you are willing to wait for what you want (which could take a year) then it might be a viable thought. some members have been able to get clear photos of octos in their LFS and post them for ID but in general, an identifying photo is hard to get. Tom's briareus are almost always briareus but he cannot sex them (unless one lays eggs while in his holding tank). Ken's mercatoris are usually mercs and he will occassionaly take a briareus to sell but forget asking for a specific sex. DanTheMarineMan (TONMO) knows his mercs but I have never seen him sex them or mention collecting other species. Once you leave the collector group and expand to the pet stores or on-line the species knowledge disappears altogether. Most octo purchases are pretty much a pig-in-a-poke and you go from there.

Successful saltwater aquariums are are relatively new thing and commercial salt has not been around for all that long (I think Instant Ocean is just over 50 years old). When Neal and I first tried a saltwater aquarium, the methods of seasoning a tank were about as opposite as you can get to todays LR cycles (we killed everything with bleach and then dechlorinated it for a month or more). There was no possible way to keep coral in that environment and anyone trying to keep seahorses would lose them in less than a week (in our case 24 hours on two different trys in two different fresh starts on the tank).

Octopus keeping is one of the newer animals to start achieving aquarium success but we still don't have successful tank breeding (there was one group that tried to breed bimacs but financially failed several years back called OctoPets). It has not been widely known for very long that their natural life spans were so short and you can still find posts in old aquarium threads that insist they will only live up to a year in captivity but would live for many years in the wild. There is a marvelous free online book that I just finished written in 1875 by a pubic aquarium curator and it is amazing how much was actually known at the time and how little of the knowledge has been in spread.