Octo ID

Discussion in 'ID Requests' started by Paradox, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. Paradox

    Paradox Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    A local fish store here in san francisco has an octopus and the owner has asked if I could ID it. Its a pretty young specimen. It looks like one ive had before in which I never identified. I know its tough with these pictures, but thought Id ask. Ive never kept a dwarf, so im not terribly familiar with them. Anyone have any ideas? It was pretty much all brown. I didnt see any eye spots at all.

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  2. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    any idea where it was caught?

    If I had to guess, I'd say it looks more like digueti than mercatoris, but that might just be because most mercatoris pics I've seen have been more curled up.
     
  3. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I have not seen any young octopuses except my Mercs and the GPO at our aquarium so I don't know if my observations would be true of young of a non-pygmy species but the bulging eyes and skinny legs certainly look like pygmy. The lack of a white start pattern on the mantle when deeply colored and not seeing the white marks around the eyes make me guess that it is NOT a Mercatoris. That little point on the head might a good giveaway but I didn't find anything to help using that idea.
     
  4. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    One picture of Octopus warringa in Norman shows a little nose-point like that... but I have no idea if that's sometimes present in other species. We don't see a lot of imports from Aus/NZ, so I'd be a bit surprised if one showed up here.
     
  5. Paradox

    Paradox Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    Unfortunately, I was not given any region for where it came from.

    Ive seen the nose-point on several species and do not think its an indication of type. I know its a long shot..any other ideas?
     
  6. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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  7. MsV

    MsV Blue Ring Registered

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    He definitely has eye spots. I was reading in front of the tank today and glanced up, and FINALLY saw them. He seems to have to be pretty relaxed for them to show, is all. :)
     
  8. Taollan

    Taollan Vampyroteuthis Supporter

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    Cuttlegirl, where have you seen O. micropyrsus assigned to the genus Enteroctopus. This is the first time I have seen that, and I must admit, it seems very strange to me.
     
  9. daddysquoc

    daddysquoc Wonderpus Registered

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    maybe o. filosus? one pic in Cephalopods A World Guide looks like your photos, except with eyespots. the spike on the end of the mantle also matches filosus, so that's my best bet.

    May cephalopods be bestowed eternal glory!
     
  10. MsV

    MsV Blue Ring Registered

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    Okay, I've finally managed to get camera talking to computer, so I'm going to revive this thread. My best (novice) guess is hummelincki/filosus, but anyone with a better notion of what they're looking at should shout me down.

    He has a pointy head - some of the time. His resting colour/texture is smooth and a little iridescent, but he goes spiky and dark, or striped, or whatever when hunting or cranky. Eyespots of vivid blue are visible sometimes. He's not shy or nocturnal, even when both cats choose to sit on top of his tank.
     

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  11. Paradox

    Paradox Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    Glad to see your octo is still doing well!
     
  12. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    By George, I think you've IDed it

    The bottom left picture could easily be one of Octane (adult Hummelincki) and that little extra skin pigtail is also something I see often. I have not seen the "briarius" irridescence and wonder if that will change to the stark white later (I do see just a few hints of it but never the whole body). The personality is on T as well. I have already told the collector who found 'Tane that if he happend on another and even dreams of offering it to anyone but me his name is mud. :heee:

    Check out Octane's pics and see if you don't agree. Octane arrived about a month after you got this little guy (from the FL keys) but I would never have guessed Hummelincki from the juvenile pictures. Your location seems odd for a Carribean species but there is a good possibility that it may have come from Nicaragua. Here is a link that shows the pointy head as well as a couple of other looks: http://www.tonmo.com/community/index.php?threads/8759/page-3
     
  13. MsV

    MsV Blue Ring Registered

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    Thanks! Good to have confirmation from someone with so much more experience than I. Oliver is my first octo, and such a delight that I am firmly hooked.

    He has quadrupled in size in the last two months, so I'm guessing he's still young? His patterning seems to be changing as he gets older. I'm seeing that dark blotchy look (sometimes with a stark white stripe down the front of his body) more and more, and the smooth featureless dark look shown in Paradox's original pics less and less. He's a less 'stocky' looking, I think, than your Octane, but seems to be thickening up as he matures.

    He is nowhere near as friendly than your Octane, and pushes my finger away when I try to pet him (follows it up with a squirt if I persist). He has also squirted me for daring to perform a water change when he wanted to hang out at the top of the tank, for feeding him a fresh scallop, and even sprayed the underside of the glass lid when the cat jumped onto it! :roflmao: Having said that, he doesn't seem too stressed by the cats.

    I have no idea where he was collected, but as Paradox says, he was bought through a LFS here in San Francisco.

    What exactly is the 'corkscrewing' that gets talked about? Oliver does two weird things with his arms, but I don't expect either to be signs of senescence (yet) He tends to 'sleep' with the tips of his arms not suckered on to the glass, so they sort of curl up in a relaxed spiral sort of way, and he also does this crazy seething thing where he remains stuck to the glass but his arms curl and rub against each other in a fidgety, frenetic sort of way. Hard to describe, will have to try taking a video. :)

    Thanks again!
     
  14. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    This sounds like a behaviour ours do quite often, to me it looks like some form of "grooming" (OK I know they don't groom in the sense a mammal does!). It does seem to be associated with when they shed sucker linings, so it may help skin cells slough off......and maybe it just feels good!

    J
     
  15. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Octane is my first octopus that is not a dwarf so my experience level is still very novice. You actually acquired Oliver before Octane arrived.

    'Tane had very tight corkscrew arms after shipping but the look became more relaxed curling like you describe after a couple of days. I also noticed that when the lights went out, the arms straightened almost instantly. He also seemed to have difficulty moving around on the glass for about the first month and his suckers appeared to stick more than he intended so he would try to swim but would still be stuck to the glass (acrylic). He seems to have figured out how much suction is needed now though and I don't see him fighting to release himself. I DO see sucker shedding and there is usually a shed wandering about the tank at any given time. When he first came, he shed dozens for the first week or so. Jean mentioned that she has seen octos put their arms inside their own mantle as if to scratch and I have seen Octane do this once as well. I also see more shed when he decides to open a clam.

    I let Octane come up to my finger to pet him and don't chase him. After he has come up for a scratch, sometimes I will move my hand a little to see if he wants more but I never put my full hand in the water at petting time. He actually started the idea when he would come over to check out the shrimp and then would refuse it but rub on my fingers. I think a big key to friendly contact is very slow movement, allowing at least half an hour for interaction time each day and letting the octopus come to you (which means a lot of just watching without doing anything. Also, I think SLOWLY stroking a corner of the tank has a major impact. Octane will occassionally act nervous and be bouncing around the tank but always calms down when I go over and just rub on the tank (some of my seahorses responded to this too as well as two of my mercs). If he has been particularly nerveous, I will change out 5 gallons of water after I have him calmed down and double check my salinity. I have never seen a poitive ammonia or nitrite reading but I don't even test (I have a constant ammonia monitor on the tank) when I see any kind of unusual behavior, I just freshen his water (could even be temperature) and the combination has always ended the unusual behavior. It may be that the actions are simply meant to get my attention and he gets a 5 gallon water change weekly without fail but there seems to be no downside to the water change and it makes me less nerveous.
     
  16. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Just make sure your hands have no soap sunscreen etc on them, also I would wet them before the octi can touch, to protect the octis skin. Do be aware that the octopus can nip and all carry a neuro-toxin, so if you're in any way allergic to seafood (for eg) it's probably best if you don't touch!

    J
     
  17. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    In the paper Mucktopus wrote when she analysed a couple of undescribed octos she mentioned that they were caught using common household dishwashing liquid and that some form of testing could not be done because this was used. I assume it is lethal and does something to the gills but failed to ask her more about it at the time of the posting.
     
  18. Colin

    Colin Colossal Squid Supporter

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    It could be a de-oxygenator. I know for example that an old method for poaching fish was to put washing up powder in the river and the salmon would all rise to the surface, many would die quickly and get lifted easily out of the water.
     
  19. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    I've been told (I forget by who, so possibly someone who isn't credible) that soap somehow impedes gills working correctly, like it coats them or its effects on surface tension mess up the gas exchange or something.

    I know if you spray soapy water on a terrestrial insect, it can block the respiratory openings, even though surface tension normally prevents that with non-soapy water.
     
  20. Colin

    Colin Colossal Squid Supporter

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    right, soapy water seems to weaken surface tension. When i worked with leafcutter ants we had them behind a moat of water, some could ocassionally skate across the surface but if you added some washing up liquid they sunk into the water and drowned
     

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