O.vulgaris

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by Kharn, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    G'day

    Very soon I will be stepping into the Cephalopod side of marine aquarium keeping and I was wondering what peoples thoughts are on tank size for an O.vulgaris seeing as most of the information based around them ends in "take it back" but what of those of us that might be targeting a Vulgaris in the hopes to provide its needs ?

    Whilst I'm more then confident with everything the system has to act as the Cephs life support I am just slightly concerned about the Cephs overall potential space within the Display Tank it will call home...

    The subject on O.vulgaris 95% of the time tends to be "Gets to big", but I have seen many people keep them before in aquariums and so know it's not only plausible but as just stated, people are doing it.

    What would a GOOD tank size be for an adult O.vulgaris ?

    Currently the planned tank is a decent 48"L x 24"W x 36"T @ 170g est. / 650L est.

    Cheers
     
  2. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Kharn, Please consider adding your location to your profile as it is not automatic and helpful for answering questions. With your salutation, I suspect you may not be in the US :wink:

    Since you are designing lots of additional water, I would expect length to be more of a consideration than gallonage. In the US the vulgaris are considerably smaller than the Mediterranean variety and are less plentiful than many other species. I have kept one in a 65G (246L) but LittleBit was small even for a Caribbean. Had she grown larger before brooding, I had a 140G (530L) available but this is likely small for a Mediterranean animal (especially since mine is 3' deep). El Diablo was probably more typical and his tank probably at the minimum (130G). He died after a major inking event and it is unclear if more water would have prevented his death. I have only had one major inking event (O. hummelincki), fortunately had an open, equivalently sized tank for a quick transfer and the animal survived.
     
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  3. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    G'day DWhatley

    Australia is my home I know it must make other envious... ;)

    Length regrettably is the 1 dimension I am limited in...1200mm or 48" is the max length we can sacrifice.

    O.vulgaris seem to be in large common supply down here and specifically my local area SE QLD.
     
  4. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I got to visit just south of you (Coffs Harbour, NSW) in 2012 and loved it :grin: Have you considered a gloomy (Octopus tetricus, Common Sydney) or are vulgaris more common in Queensland?
     
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  5. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    I'm going to be honest with you....I certainly do NOT know my Ceph species like I do my Stomatopod species... Having said that, Blue Rings/Flamboyants/Mimics/ these stand out easily enough for me to understand what's what.

    But as far as actually physically identifying the difference between other species....I'm kind of just guessing and hoping, the primary aim though IS to target or obtain a LARGE species, Vulgaris to me/us just seems like the most common up here or at least 1 of the most common larger species.

    Up until you wrote 'tetricus', I had never heard of it....please do not mistaken this as ignorance...I started out the same way with Stomatopods and now 5-6yrs later I have the largest thread (over 90pages) on one of the largest forums (ReefCentral) and am considered in general world wide one of the Stomatopod Information Powerhouses...

    You and I are a lot alike.... even if those that we care for primarily are effectively born and bred to war with one another... ;)
     
  6. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Use this link as a search for "Gloomy" in the encounters thread for some interesting and fun interaction in the wild with this species. @haggs kept one last year (Coffs Harbour) but when we converted to the new forum software Hector's (octopus name) posts to that journal failed to survive the conversion. I believe this species is one that would interest you and they seem to be well suited for a large tank.

    I suspect your mantis experience is toped by one of our admins though :sagrin: Check out @Neogonodactylus under the staff bios :grin:
     
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  7. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    Neogonodactylus and I are quite acquainted on the other Mantis Shrimp forum Dr.Caldwell goes by "Gonodactylus".
     
  8. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    I think Dr.Caldwell and I are on different levels but I provide for the public whilst he provides for a university...

    Dr.Caldwell rarely inputs photos or videos online for us he does do it but once a blue moon...I will upload photos and or videos daily and much of my "methods" the good Dr is to paranoid about...

    For example I just caught footage for the first time I have ever EVER seen it of my largest stomatopod bringing down a 2ft long eel.
     
  9. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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  10. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I have mentioned in the past that there seems to be two sizes and have wondered if there are two related species like our Pacific bimacs (bimaculoides and bimaculatus). The animals @haggs sees have much shorter arms but in the south, the animals @jugglematt and @pgs have been studying appear quite a bit larger (the 4 I saw during my visit varied but none had 3' arms. It is a robust animal with a thick mantle but vulgaris would not be much (if any) smaller. Jugglematts thread, Octopus living in groups and more stuff is well worth going through the entire thread. There are many excellent in situ photos with and without divers as well as interesting video (the one with the leatherjackets is well done but gets one rooting for the unfortunate octo to no avail) and the oddity of this band living together. There is only one other species that we are aware of that does this. This is not typical of the gloomy but appears to be of the yet to be described Greater Pacific Striped.

    We keep hoping we have most of Roy's camera time :sagrin:.
     
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  11. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    When I go to my collector next time I will take a photo of 1 of the Occys or a photo of each that he has on offer.

    We are also having to downsize the tank very slightly (depth/height wise) instead of 900mm tall its now 800mm on the grounds that if we go 900mm the builders will need to use 15mm glass and the tank will be around $2000 but if we go 800mm then they can use 12mm glass and the tank will only cost $500.

    Huge difference over 10cm.
     
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  12. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    My rule of thumb (after acquiring the 3' and 4' -1m and 1200mm - tanks I have to clean) is to not buy a tank deeper (including any hood rise) than my arm :roll:. The difference in 32 and 36 inches should not be a problem as most standard tanks are 24" (~610mm) or less but probably should be taller.

    The link in this Octobot new post has video showing a pretty typical vulgaris. The members links I posted can be used to compare the two.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
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  13. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    I'm a fairly large man standing at 6'6", so reaching for things is one of my 'gifts'....you would laugh and likely be confused at my current large Stomatopod system, considering the ballerina act I sometimes need to perform in order to reach certain places...(one of the reasons its all being torn down and rebuilt).

    But yeah we want an Octopus as well and not a small one.

    Went to my LFS yesterday to get 500L for water changes, they had a little Octo in store so I bought it home :) but beyond that you don't want to know the rest...

    Not sure what species this little tiny octo is/was, in this picture its around the size of a 1.5inch diameter, when open and tentacles out aggressively, it's a little bigger then my palm.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    Here is another picture of it starting to get angry/aggressive.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Octopus cyanea? If so, you are lucky, they are active during the day
     
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  16. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    Don't these get quite large though... ?
     
  17. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I have seen dozens of photos/videos but have not yet seen one in person. With a big enough tank, I know I would love to keep one (yours may be too small but I believe Roy has kept them in lab tanks that may not be larger). They are quite the wanderer so I don't know how well the acclimate to aquariums. The Tentacles exhibit in Monterey (also see the Monterey O. cyanea blurb) has them on display and I am told they display quite well. Really beautiful animal. I wish our local aquarium would keep them instead of/in addition to the GPOs.

    Here is one of @Nick Hopes clips for some nice action and Googling Cyanea will produce quite a bit of info.

    @Neogonodactylus has a few posts about them that may be helpful:
    http://www.tonmo.com/community/threads/cyanea-shooting-for-need-to-know-facts.11819/#post-142696
    and this one that talks about tank size:
    http://www.tonmo.com/community/threads/octopus-cyanea-55-gal.10087/#post-126557
    and this one about the difficulty of keeping them:
    http://www.tonmo.com/community/threads/o-cyanea-vs-o-rubescens.12237

    You said, was. Did it escape or just not acclimate? I am guessing the former as they are pretty hardy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  18. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    Thanks for all the information!

    Difficulty wise I throw all Octos into the same bucket and in the end 'over compensate' the system the octo is on has a 72" tall LifeReef Skimmer attached, rated at a nearly 10x the systems volume.

    No the little one didn't escape...nor did it pass away from acclimation...I'm not going to get into it but rest assured this little octopus was NOT intended to become my 'display' animal.

    I know people can pick and choose which species they want etc. just like with my Stomatopods, however just like with my Stomatopods picking and choosing will only lead to a very long wait so....I simply take what I can when it appears, just like my Stomatopods. :)

    The only thing I wouldn't want to buy is a small "species" (blue rings are not only obviously small but obviously avoided), whilst this little fella would of grown up to be a much larger individual, the period between then would of made it all but impossible to contain...even if it was in a container inside a tank, something in that tank would....come knocking...

    Most of the Octopus I see are either golf ball to tennis ball size mantle with the latter being the size I will likely be getting upfront.

    This tiny one was a little larger then my thumbnail or a small marble sized mantle.

    I really love Stomatopods but the thing about them is that I already know exactly how things are going to 'pan out' when it comes to the rebuild, the Octo is so new and fresh its giving me the whole "nooby goosebumps" :D
     
  19. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Actually, in the US we don't get to pick and choose much and just enjoy whatever comes in the box of chocolates that show up at our door step. It is sad that this little one was not for the display as it is kind of a special species and almost impossible to get here.
     
  20. Kharn

    Kharn O. vulgaris Registered

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    That's the way it works though :)

    What you have we don't and what we have you don't
    What's common 'here' can be rare 'there', etc.

    I try not to get so attached to my individuals on the simple grounds that getting to attached only leads to bad things...when the time comes.

    Recently lost the male of a "pair" of Small Smasher stomatopods, G.graphurus I had them for almost 5years together and whilst this is very abnormal since they should of tried to kill each other but no visible damage or aggression, however such a long period and being in a pair and noticing the females change of attitude since the males departure has all left me equally sad.

    This was 1 reason why I don't have 30 Cephs at the moment the other reason being the cephs need more care for both tank make & overall filtration requirements.
     

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