nitrates

[jimmy]

nitrate

thanks for everones input. i talked to a guy today. he said to use a 2 liter fillit half way w/ live sulfer w/ a slow flow rate. the water enters to th bottom of 2 liter and over flows into sump. does any one know if that would harm octos? he used it on a fish only and he said it worked great.any answers about hurting my octos? thanks

 

[Jean]

Watch your pH very closely, sulphur can acidify in water (acid rain!)

J

 

[mosthated]

this thread talkes about these, and you all might find it a good read..
NITRATE FILTER PROJECT UNDERWAY

long story short, he feeds his this. (non methanol)
http://www.eosenvironmental.com/product/microc_g.htm

 

[ErikHarrison]

What is the root cause of the nitrates? Not enough LR, or LS? Are there pockets of built up detritus that are causing this?

Hah, oops just read the other posts. A remote sandbed in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it would greatly help with NNR.

 

[DHyslop]

The root cause of nitrate is simply having animals in your system. Regular water changes are the best way to keep it down. A remote sandbed may work, but most people who use advanced techniques like that keep animals that don't generate as much waste.

 

[Inception7]

Not that I am excusing practicing less then ideal husbandry, but I've read many scientific studies on Octo's. One study raised the Nitrates to 500PPM and it had no ill effect on Octo's other then slowing their reproduction rate. Again, I am NOT saying that you should duplicate this but I think they'll be fine until you correct this. Also, the three things for nitrate reduction that I would reccomend is 1-1.5 lb/gallon quality live rock, an oversized protein skimmer (euro reef, bermuda,deltec, remora) and a macro algae transport system (i.e. refugia of at least 5-10% of total water volume). I would not rely on chemicals as this is masking the problem not attacking the solution. Also, check your source/make up water and make sure you use RO.

 

[monty]

Not that I am excusing practicing less then ideal husbandry, but I've read many scientific studies on Octo's. One study raised the Nitrates to 500PPM and it had no ill effect on Octo's other then slowing their reproduction rate. Again, I am NOT saying that you should duplicate this but I think they'll be fine until you correct this. Also, the three things for nitrate reduction that I would reccomend is 1-1.5 lb/gallon quality live rock, an oversized protein skimmer (euro reef, bermuda,deltec, remora) and a macro algae transport system (i.e. refugia of at least 5-10% of total water volume). I would not rely on chemicals as this is masking the problem not attacking the solution. Also, check your source/make up water and make sure you use RO.

Just to clarify this (particularly the "less than ideal husbandry" part):

There is a study, cited in Boyle (1991) The Care and Management of Cephalopods in the Laboratory and on Hanlon's publication page as "Hanlon, R.T.; Forsythe, J.W. 1985. Advances in the laboratory culture of octopuses for biomedical research. Lab. Anim. Sci. 35(1): 33-40." which apparently reports 500 mg/l as only impacting reproduction, but I don't have a copy or an indication of what species were tested. However, the relevant sections of Boyle provide other context:

p.31

As with fish, it is the build up of nitrogenous excretory products which poses the main problem for closed sea water aquaria. Boletzky and Hanlon (1983) recommend the adoption of Spotte's (1979a) standards: < 0.10 mg/l ammonia, < 0.10 mg/l nitrite, < 20.00 mg/l nitrate. However, higher levels of nitrate concentration are tolerated by some octopuses, eg Eledone cirrhosa (50 mg/l nitrate, Boyle 1981a), Octopus joubini and O. digueti (100 - 200 mg/l nitrate, Forsythe 1984; DeRusha et al 1987). These levels have been measured for relatively few species and range of tolerance levels are not established.

and p.32

In small recirculating systems ( 2600 l ), with biological and mechanical filtration, physical absorption ('protein skimmers') and UV sterilization, Hanlon and Forsythe (1985) were able to hold a maximum octopus biomass of 15kg. Sustained levels of ammonio-notrogen and nitrate*-nitrogen of up to 0.20 mg / l were tolerated. Nitrate-nitrogen could be held at 500 mg/l although it was felt that levels over 100 mg/l were affecting reproductive success. Clearly the holding capacity of any aquarium is more related to its ability to control water quality rather than absolute space requirements of the animals

I am assuming the nitrate* is a typo for nitrite.

Since this was a study in extremes, it sets a cap for one species of octopus that can survive, but not reproduce, at very high nitrate levels. That doesn't mean this should be considered safe, healthy, natural, or appropriate, and Hanlon's recommendation is cited as 20 mg/l (= 20 ppm) maximum as a rule.

I'm not trying to be pedantic or argumentative, just make sure that people reading this don't read into this that high nitrate is "OK."