Newbie with octopus and eggs

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by viciousfishes, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. viciousfishes

    viciousfishes Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Hey, I have a tank we set up in the first week in February 120 gallon with trickle filter and chiller keeping it at 65 degrees F. 140 lbs of Utah lace rock, 80 lbs of live sand. On Feb. 12th we added 2 octopi, one larger(9"?) and one smaller(6"?) that were caught off the coast of Santa Barbara. Have been doing well together with the exception of a couple of minor spats. I thought they might be Pacific Giants, but this morning the larger of the two scooped out a nest in the sand and deposited a clutch of eggs at the base of the overflow box under the rocks, eggs appear to be about a centimeter in length and approx. 20-30 of them. The smaller of the two seemed to be doing a happy dance yesterday evening. Since they are sexually mature I am thinking maybe they are another species? I am an experienced professional aquarist but this is my first Octopus aquarium, Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Can you help me identify the species? Advice on eggs? I was thinking that she may have been eggbound already when caught? What is gestation period and appropriate foods for hatchlings?

    Thank You in Advance,

    Tim
     

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  2. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

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    Good golly--they look like bimacs

    You know this means there might be some tank raised bimacs in our future!

    Dan
     
  3. joefish84

    joefish84 Sepia elegans Registered

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    WOOOHOOOO!!!!!
     
  4. sorseress

    sorseress Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Beautiful!!!
     
  5. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Tim and welcome to TONMO.com!:welcome:

    These are beautiful octopuses (are the pics ony of the smaller one?). However, I don't think they're bimacs because I can't see any eyespot. They look something like young O. rubescens. We now have a forum under Ceph Science for IDs, so please post your pics there with a short description (size, where they were found, size of eggs, etc.)

    If you click on Articles above, and then on Ceph Care, you find a list of articles on keeping cephs. The ones on octopuses should interest you.

    The length of time for the eggs to hatch depends on the species and water temperature - it might be 6 weeks. These are large eggs so you'd have a chance of raising them. They need small prey, such as mysid shrimp and amphipods, if you want to give it a try.

    Do they have names? I'd like to post them in the List of Our Octopuses
    at the top of this forum.

    Nancy
     
  6. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

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    The eyespots might be hidden behind the curled tentacle in the middle picture, perhaps? It does look awfully red though. Let a man have hope, Nancy :)

    Dan
     
  7. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    Octos are hard to identify - so yes, there's always hope.

    I think we'll find a way to have bimacs again.:smile:

    Nancy
     
  8. viciousfishes

    viciousfishes Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    wow, you all are pretty active on the board, The tank is at a client/friends office so I don't get to study them at will. But am finding them to be even more fascinating than I had expected and am debating on keeping one personally. This site is going to be a big help, thank you. Here are a few more pics. Names are Ophelia and Oscar although they are now being reversed since the big one is a female. Yes the pictures are only of the small one(now Oscar) but they are the same species. The big one(now Ophelia) has not been as photo friendly(maybe brooding?).

    Tim
     

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  9. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Great pics!!!! The eggs in O. Rubescens are 3-4mm long, so a small egg species, which means they would be hard to rear(planktonic). If you have access to rotifers or perhaps a plankton net with an ocean nearby you could give it a go.

    I think I'll put my money on it being O. digueti, I can't see the little spikes on the eyes (O. Rubescens), and "spots and bumpy skin" seem like a good description based on the pics(go Cephalopods a world guide go!). :grin:
    Are there two flaps under the eyes Viciousfishes? I cant quite make it out?
    If this is the case your chances of raising them are much better - the young will be benthic , making it much easier to feed them. Lots of pods ect will be good. Try and see how big the eggs are too, that will help confirm what species you have.
    Good luck with it. :grin:
     
  10. joefish84

    joefish84 Sepia elegans Registered

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    i will have yalls access to the dried copopod and amphipod eggs here pretty soon when i do ill post the web adress for my friends store and you can order them through him
     
  11. TidePool Geek

    TidePool Geek O. vulgaris Registered

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    Hi Tim,

    The consensus seems to be that you've either got O. rubescens or O. digueti. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speculate but here are a couple of picture galleries that might help you:

    This one is O. rubescens
    http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/imgdb/...D=&CephID=582&Location=&Keywords=&LowestTaxa=

    And this is O. digueti
    http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/imgdb/...D=&CephID=522&Location=&Keywords=&LowestTaxa=

    These galleries include pictures of both the animals and of their developing eggs.

    FWIW: Your pictures do appear to be of a male octo. In the center picture in your original post (Octopus2.jpg) the arm that is pointing directly to the left seems to be different than the others - that's indicative of a male since they have one specialized arm for sperm transfer.

    It's possible that the "spats" that you witnessed were actually the two octos mating. The fact that one is significantly larger than the other but that both survived the encounter reinforces that idea.

    If you're not familiar with the octopus life cycle it might be worth pointing out that these two animals are almost certainly going to die soon. That's the natural way of things. Depending on species, an octopus grows to breeding size/age in 6 to 36 months (more or less) and dies after reproducing. You might want to warn your client!

    BTW: Those were excellent pictures! I'm sure everyone wishes you the best of luck and hopes that you'll keep us informed about how things are going.

    Reproductively yours,

    Alex
     
  12. viciousfishes

    viciousfishes Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Thanks for the links, I'm pretty sure that we have O. digueti after comparing the pics. Are these the ones that are easier to raise to adulthood? Any tips? should the eggs, or babies, or parents be removed from the tank? We are all aware of the short life cycle but were just getting attached to these two and had hoped to know them a bit longer :( oh well such is life...
     
  13. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    That means your in luck!!!! These are so called big egg species - when the eggs hatch a "fully" formed mini octopus will pop out, and carry on just as normal.

    Small egg species on the otherhand have planktonic larvae, making them pretty much impossible without very intense care- kinda like raising clownfish, but much harder. :shock:

    Here's a link to Cephjedi's log on raising some eggs.... http://www.jimbolouislabs.com/eggjournal.htm

    And here a good bit of info Dan found from the now closed octopets....
    It will be interesting to see how it goes :grin:
     
  14. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    They sure don't resemble digueti, and they are out of the natural range...of course, they could be transfers, or abnormals...hey, it does happen.
    Adult digueti are about 8" in diameter, spread out...more miniature than miniature
     
  15. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    viciousfishes : can you see "two flaps below the eyes" on the octopus? This apparantly is one of the ways to distinguish between the two species.
    I only just worked out where Santabarbara was, it does seem a wee bit out, but who knows.
     
  16. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    The only place I have been able to find them is in the northern straights of the Sea of Cortez...but, it is conceivable that they could make it, or be transferred to, S.B.
    In the photos, they look waaaaay to big to be digueti, though...our adults can fit into a shot glass.
     
  17. viciousfishes

    viciousfishes Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    These two are way to big to fit in a shot glass. I wasn't able to get a good look at them on Friday when I serviced the tank, but I did find that she has a lot more eggs attached up under the rocks in her cave. Probably 100-200 eggs and the eggs are about the size of a grain of rice if that helps with ID'ing. The digueti pics resemble these two the most from what I have been able to see so far. Although they do sometimes have some red coloration in them. Also in looking at the pics of O. rubescens I saw that some of the pictures were taken at the Channel Islands which is basically where these two came from. So maybe that points more in the direction of these being O. rubescens. In that case, do they still hatch out to be full baby octopuses? That would eat copepods and amphipods etc.?
     
  18. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Sounds like O rubescens from the egg size, when they hatch you might want to switch/slow down the flow or they'll get skimmed!

    To confirm have a look at these pics...
    [​IMG]
    The middle egg is O. digueti, and the bottom egg is what O. rubescens eggs would be like. Unfortunately - there isnt a scale on the pic.


    here is a pic of rubescens eggs. [​IMG]
     
  19. viciousfishes

    viciousfishes Pygmy Octopus Registered

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    Well,

    here is a pic of rubescens eggs.
    These look like the eggs we have.... so now what?

    Tim
     
  20. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    Here are some O. rubescens pics from the NRCC
     

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