Need help with Orthocone sculpture

OK. The shell is repaired. But further research gives the shell length as 6 meters. Cameroceras - Wikipedia Mine is representative of 9 as mentioned on TV and my old research. :hmm: Do I really want to chop off 33% of what I have now? 10 inches down to 7?

- Leelan
 
Wikipedia ehh? Still skeptical about that too.

Check out the references...excellent. I will say though, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if someday a fossil were found representative of a 9 meter Cameroceras. I swear I thought I had read about one found in (I think) Arkansas by students, but I can't find the article:shock:.
 
Terri;183949 said:
Check out the references...excellent. I will say though, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if someday a fossil were found representative of a 9 meter Cameroceras. I swear I thought I had read about one found in (I think) Arkansas by students, but I can't find the article:shock:.

That USGS paper may help with your Tennessee stuff :cool2: The Arkansas fossil was a large Rayonnoceras, a Carboniferous Actinocerid, most links to the story on TONMO are old and broken :sad:

modelnut;183954 said:
Now to decide whether to give my sculpt a nautiloid face or a squid one. Oy. :confused:

- Leelan
Go with the squid :heee:
 
Hi Leelan, nice to see this old thread has resurected. I started some time ago a reconstruction of an ammonite, which I wanted to sculpt directly on a cast of an original shell. When it is finished (anytime...) it will become part of the exhibition at the paleontological museum at Tübingen, Germany. I had a lot of discussions about the reconstruction of nautiloids, and I tried to get some more useful information. I came to several conclusions, which could possibly help you. Stupidly there are no soft body impressions which would tell us how living nautiloids really looked like, but still there are some few things we can conclude from this abscence. Even in deposits in which perfect belemnite fossils with fossilised hooks and ink sacs were found, ammonites show nothing. So we can for example conclude they had next to sure no chitinous hooks on their arms. It seems even not that probable they had large suckers too, as they would have fossilized at least sometimes. There are a lot of indications for planctivory in nautiloids, so it´s well possible they had neither very strong and big tentacles, nor big and partly chitinous suckers. As the multiple tentacles in Nautilus are only a secondary development which form during embryogenesis when the ten original tentacles split into many small tentacles, it´s seems more probable that the most primitive cephalopods which were ancestral to Nautilus and nautiloids had ten tentacles, and perhaps ammonites and othrer nautiloids conserved this original bauplan as next to all other cephalopods did too.
When I sculpt my ammonites, I will use Spirula as a reference, as it seems to have a lot in common with early ammonites. Instead of big suckers (like those of many modern cephalopods) or sticky and grooved tentacles as those of Nautilus, I will give my ammonites multiple small sucker pads as those of Spirula. They would be useful for a planctivore and would also most probably be too fragile to fossilize. I would connect the arms at their base at least partly with some skin, and would completely renounce a hood, despite the fact that I sculpted this on my earlier versions. All in all, I would make the whole ammonite comparably similar to Spirula, but of course with some changes, for example to fit the shape of the shell´s opening. I would also make proportionally smaller eyes I think. Spirula is small, but a planctivorous dish-sized ammonite probably didn´t really need bigger eyes.
 
I am resurrecting my Cameroceras model

Leelan, sorry I'm a little confused, is that your work in post #27? I keep going back to look at that model, the color banding in it looks so similiar to an orthocone I found from the middle Ordovician (450mya(ish) ) it's freaking me out a little. :shock:
 
Terri, sadly I will most probably not be able to finish the ammonite within the next half year, as I don´t have time for such things at the next months. A model of similar size as the one at Leelan´s last post is also planed for the museum at Tübingen, but I suppose this will need even more time. I think the model which Leelan linked is in a czech museum.
 
Terri,

That is not my orthocone in #27. The artist's name on Deviantart is "Mallimaakari". Probably an alias like my "Modelnut". He lives in Hellsinki. I am in Georgia, USA.

Today I am going to brainstorm and make sketches of my base. I figure I need to get the cone "water-borne" and secure before I start sculpting tentacles.

Sorde! Good to hear from you again! I will take your suggestions to heart probably this week. What do you suggest for the eyes? Something like the modern nautilus? Or maybe like those seen in that Discovery Channel program with Nigel Marven, fleshy bulbs with pits?

I will look up the Spirula to see if it strikes any sparks.

Thank you everyone!
- Leelan
 
Hi Leelan, I have some sketches for my new ammonite in original size which I have drawn around the shell, but sadly I don´t have them here. I made several different versions, but I still have to see which one I will actually use. For the eyes I would suggest comparably "normal" eyes, and not Nautilus eyes. Planctivores probably did not need a very acute sense of vision, and most nautiloids did not live in deep water, so I don´t think they had really big eyes.
The eyes of Spirula looks really somewhat strange, bulging and conical, but I will make my model with similar eyes, yet probably a little bit flatter. Spirula eyes differs from most other cephalopod eyes, so I can make eyes which are unlike typical squid eyes, but also not completely speculative.

BTW, are there still somewhere photos of your Specworld right-whale-squid online?
 
Sadly, the website that had those pictures is gone. I have yet to repost them somewhere. My wife just mentioned this as a matter of fact just a few minutes before you did.

- Leelan
 


Strange that Spirula's shell is internalized. I wonder if ammonite shells might have been. Is there a way to tell from details on the fossils?

- Leelan
 

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Some fossils of ammonites are known with the opening of their shell completely shut by the aptychus, what would be not possible if there was any external tissue.
 

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