My Octopus Setup! what do you think?

Discussion in 'Tank Talk' started by mosthated, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. mosthated

    mosthated GPO Supporter

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    This is how I plan on laying everything out and, plumbing it. What do you think? Any suggestion would be GREAT! I am picking the 100gallon tank up tomorrow. I made the sump/wet dry out of a 39 gallon tank, and the refugium will be out of a 29gallon I already have up and running.
     

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  2. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    How are you planning to work the fuge overflow into the main tank? We are lazily (primarily because of finances) planning another large tank and I want to do a mud fuge with overflow in hopes of encouraging pods and maybe even shrimp but we haven't dreamed up how to get the water successfully into the larger tank without a mess.
     
  3. mosthated

    mosthated GPO Supporter

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    my diy overflow. it take water out of the 100gl to the sump/wetdry and out of the refug to the 100gal.
     
  4. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I understand the flow out of the 100 gal but I don't understand the water into the 100 gal. How are you plumbing the water from the fuge to the main tank so that it will only go into the tank and not simply over the sides of the fuge?
     
  5. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    You could also just drill a hole in the 'fuge, use a bulkhead and run pipe or tubing to the main tank.
     
  6. Paradox

    Paradox Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    Having all the return goto the fuge first might be too much flow for it. A fuge works better with slower flow. Perhaps split the return so that some goto the fuge and some goto the main tank?
     
  7. mosthated

    mosthated GPO Supporter

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    D. the fuge will be elevated higher then the 100gall. and will have a over flow on it flowing into the 100gal.
    Paradox i got that advice somewhere else as well, and i agree.. i am going to put a "T" in the return line with one of those ball vaulve cutoff's on both lines and i will use it to adjust the flow to the fuge.
    Thanks for the suggestions.. I got the tank!!! and water cycling! i am going to build the stand for it monday and hopefully find something to dump all that water i got cycling into so i can move the aqurarium. I just couldnt wait to put some water in it! =) anyways.. i will post a picture once i have it all setup.. thanks again..

    O! i got a question.. in my fuge, what would you use for substrate? i was thinking miricle mud or fiji mud but someone said crushed argonate would be better for filltering purposes?
     
  8. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Thales,
    How is that mud doing with the nitrates and water clarity in the wunderpus (can't spell soft spot in a baby's head without looking) tank? I have been thinking about trying an overflow fuge with it when we build out a new tank next year since the "ads" claim the water gets better after a year or so.
     
  9. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    The water is fine, but I see no compelling reason to spend the money for mud - I have gotten the same if not better fuge results with sand.
     
  10. mosthated

    mosthated GPO Supporter

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    Well, it is all setup. Not finished! but its up and running. I bought 150lbs of pool filter sand for the big tank, and took out all the live sand i had in my 29gallon tank and added it on top. After plumbing a setup like this for the first time, i learned a few things! one is my outflow line acts like a siphone is i unplug the pump so i have to get a large check valve and install it in the line in case of a power outage. second, i wasnt thinking about it but having the fuge higher then the main tank, when i split the return water line off the pump all the water wants to goto the lower tank. so i had to actully fully open the ball valve to the fuge, and slightly close the one to the main tank just to get a slow flow of water up to the fuge but it is all working great, and next time i am going to buy 20 of ever pvc piece i need and take back what i dont use lol. i think i made like 4 trips to lowes.. thats a 20min drive there and back! lol.. the stand is still unfinished and i will be painting all the exposed pvc black with that krylon h20 paint. still have to make lid's octo proof all the pvc and get a light and some rock, but its running!
     

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  11. Psychopompos

    Psychopompos Larval Mass Registered

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    if you use a sump is it important to have a refugium? and what is the point of a refugium, just more filtration?
     
  12. Paradox

    Paradox Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    My new place has a hardware store right accross the st and I walk there 2-3 times a day when Im working on the tank!

    Check valves are a must in case of power outages. Ensure you get the all plastic ones. They may be more expensive, but worth it. I bought the one available at marine depot and it works great. I had a different model from a different aquarium supply store prior because it was cheaper..and it leaked!. It took me an entire day to first isolate the leak and then fix it. I guess this is one of those things you dont want to buy cheap.

    As for fuge substrate. Personally ive not tried any of the muds, but Ive kept sand beds. Recently, Ive been running fuges barebottom, because they will collect detritus, which ends up polluting your tank instead of cleaning it. Barebottom is very easy to clean. Especially with your system, since its high up and would just require siphoning.

    Tank Looks good!
     
  13. mosthated

    mosthated GPO Supporter

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    lol so high up i have to stand on a 5 gallon bucket to see down in it =) those pictures dont do the size of this thing justic! the stand is a little over 4ft tall and over 8 foot long, 2 1/2 feet deep. I want to try and do a natural type setup, i really like the idea of this setup, but i will be running a skimmer on mine.
    http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=76
    i have really been trying to find some info on the pros/cons or even the differences in between using mud vs sand but i really cant seem to find much? if i dont find anything i am going with mud and planting some mangroves in the refuge, that will look way cool up there with some kind of suspended light..

    -Psychopompos- the fuge for me is mainly for extra filtration, but some people use them for a breeding ground for pods and whatnots for their main tank. it is not a requirment but a good added bonus,
     
  14. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

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    I would avoid using check valves in the return line: they aren't reliable in the long term IMO. As long as you plan the sump so there's enough room for the backflow you'll be fine--free and foolproof.
     
  15. Paradox

    Paradox Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    What do you see happening to them in the long run? Have you had leaks?

    I have to have one, because Im using a wavemaker that sits 1.5 inches under water level. With a 150 gallon tank, thats a lot of water!
     
  16. DHyslop

    DHyslop Architeuthis Supporter

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    A few of my service tanks have them, and even the higher-quality valves will tend to degrade over time as things grow on them. The nice ones are even clear so you can visually inspect growth inside. As they age I've found they tend to "bounce" for a few minutes after the pump turns off, making a thud-thud-thud sound. While they do this a certain amount of water is still flowing back through. Depending on the system it could be enough to flood.

    Remember that anything that gets in there--even the tiniest piece of algae--can keep it from sealing completely. And even the smallest leak through the check valve is still enough to cause a flood given enough time: will the power be out for a minute or an hour?

    The bottom line for me is it is a mechanical device, and every mechanical device will fail eventually, sooner in such a demanding environment as these. I've only had one fail and cause a minor flood (luckily on an engineered floor), but I top off the tank with the pump off to limit the valve's necessity. Is it possible for you to raise the wavemaker near the surface or drill an anti-siphon hole? Another option may be to add a closed loop and put the wavemaker on that.
     
  17. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree with Dan completely about check valves. Unless you clean the religiously weekly, they are bound to fail - even cleaning them weekly is no guarantee they will work. At the public aquarium I help out at, they use check valves (big ones), they have engineers on duty 24 hours a day, and they check valves still fail. I have tried several different kinds just to see, and all of them leaked.


    mosthated,

    On your system I don't see any actual overflows, just piping, and not even standpipes, but pvc u's with airline nipples. Am I not seeing something in the pic? If I'm not, those pvc u's will be actual siphons which isn't a good idea. Also it looks like the inlet of the return pump is a ways below the water line, and in a power outage it will also become a siphon.
     
  18. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Which wavemaker? There are other ways to deal with the problem. :grin:
     
  19. Thales

    Thales Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    The idea of a refugium has really become muddy in the last few years. Originally, it was a refuge for pods and other animals that tank inhabitants would eat. Slowly, the water would flow to the main tank giving the tank inhabitants the chance at a tasty snack. Now, many people use them as a place to grow macro algae.
    Most ceph set ups don't nee the critters, but may benefit from macro algae. I think a macro algae section in the sump would be more efficient than a common refugium set up.
     
  20. mosthated

    mosthated GPO Supporter

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    Thales - i made my overflows out of pvc, why is that not a good idea? seem to be working fine, and i know the outlet works as a over flow now! =) thats why i said i need a check valve.
     

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