More Lebanese soft bodies

Discussion in 'Cephalopod Fossils' started by Hajar, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    Two to start with: one a 6 cm coleoid in lateral view (not sure which this is); the second a complete 17 cm Dorateuthis syriaca (Prototeuthidina according to Fuchs here).
     

    Attached Files:

  2. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    46
    Amazing quality, what's with the dendrites? Ink?
     
    #2    Top
  3. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    somewhere under the desert sky
    Very cool fossils Hajar! 8-)
     
  4. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Amazing cuttlefish fossil. Wish I could get a close up of the cuttlebone (like under a microscope...).
     
  5. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    Hi Ob. I think the dendrites are just the usual - post-depositional pyrolusite (manganese dioxide). There's a baby skate in the top right hand corner with pyrolusite dendrites in the position of its eyes.

    Here attached is a sketch showing the position of the ink sac (I want to write "sack", but I see this written "sac" even in English texts).
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    somewhere under the desert sky
    I thought that was a snail in the upper right hand corner, looking closer I can see the Skate, very nice!!!
     
  7. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    A few more pictures (now that I'm back from "the most important of all the unimportant things in the world", i.e. football). Here you go cuttlegirl, a close-up of the tail end of the gladius in the laterally-preserved animal. The white layer at the top is made of francolite (carbonate fluorapatite) - it fluoresces spectacularly under UV light.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    Here's a different one, Rachiteuthis donovoni, 5 cm long.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    46
    OK, that explains the dendrites dorsally, I had trouble making sense of it otherwise :wink: I take it the ink has a tendency to solidify post mortem, for such a three dimensional shape to remain, even following fossilization?
     
    #9    Top
  10. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Thanks Hajar. That is so cool, cuttlebones today have a top layer (that corresponds to the francolite layer) and then the chambers are laid down laterally and ventrally from the top layer.

    I found a google book that has nice drawings of the anatomy of some cephalopods. Starts on page 559. It's an old book (1861), but with incredibly detailed illustrations. It doesn't concentrate on cuttlefish as much as I would like, but has some octopus anatomy and Nautilus anatomy.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=zd0UAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Also, this book starting on page 517.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=V1sgAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA546&lpg=PA546&dq=cuttlebone+anatomy&source=bl&ots=FW_O6PG2IY&sig=x1AAShnPAPvE9bmTUWFLbxOkqxg&hl=en&ei=3srSTJCnNsX6lwffz9DlDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDkQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false
     
  11. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Also, how do you differentiate between the ink sac and not the stomach? In other words, how did you determine that it was the ink sac and not the stomach? The ink sac is connected to the stomach, but ventral to the stomach. See figure 221 on page 535 of the second book.
     
  12. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    Thanks for the links cuttlegirl.

    Yes, the ink sacs are preserved in 3D and still contain ink (which falls out leaving the external mould), whereas the stomachs are preserved flattened, as in this Dorateuthis.

    The francolite in this specimen is an early precipitate recording the soft parts of the mantle rather than part of the gladius.

    Incidentally I just went out to buy a crinoid for the aquarium, but since there was a cuttlefish I brought that home too. Fascinating to observe.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    and speaking of ink, this guy gave an impressive inking display as it was caught in the shop tank.
     
  14. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Oh, how lucky you are to have a cuttlefish. Do you know the species? How big is it?
     
  15. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I guess that makes sense since the ink would be dense inside the ink sac and the stomach would just be a hollow bulb.
     
  16. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    Hi cuttlegirl, it's about 10 cm long and has shown all the repertoire of colours (including the neon blue line) and textures (smooth to covered in tubercles) that I've seen in the wild ones here so I'd guess Sepia pharaonis.
     
  17. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    19,076
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    Gainesville, GA USA
    It took awhile ... :grin: I hope you will start a journal with this one.
     
  18. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    I did! Here's a picture of an eye which I find fascinating. It's a very photogenic animal, now named "Ramses". The eye of the laterally-preserved coleoid shown above is also remarkable and I'll take a close-up of that a little later.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Hajar

    Hajar Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    60
    A couple of Cretaceous eyes.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    somewhere under the desert sky
    Do I see Eyelashes on that top fossil :sly:
     

Share This Page