Monsters of the deep

Discussion in 'Physiology and Biology' started by mikeconstable, Jul 31, 2003.

  1. mikeconstable

    mikeconstable GPO Registered

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    The New Scientist article has been published. Steve O'Shea is freely quoted so TONMO has already provided much of the information first, but it is good to see an overview of the state of knowledge on giant squid in print.
     
  2. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Hey Mike, this isn't fair!!!! I haven't seen it yet!!!! How can it be out so soon???? OMG, I'll have to hide from the phone.

    Is TONMO.com quoted/mentioned throughout the article?

    No fair! :x :x :x :x
     
  3. myopsida

    myopsida Vampyroteuthis Supporter

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    news

    Cover & all !
    Your shout Steve......[/img]
     
  4. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    Awesome!!!! My goodness, a nod for TONMO.com would be awesome! Gotta get me a copy....

    :oshea:

    myopsida: note that I had to remove your attachment -- not only is it probably not permissable for us to reproduce the photo here (and it is quite likely/possible that New Scientist will be around here), but you also doctored it (pun not really intended)... :wink:

    For anyone who wants to see the real cover:

    NEW SCIENTIST
     
  5. mikeconstable

    mikeconstable GPO Registered

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    Is TONMO.com quoted/mentioned throughout the article?

    Your secret is safe - TONMO is not mentioned (sorry Tony) - until someone tries a Google search for Steve O'Shea when it is one of the top items!
     
  6. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    Re: Is TONMO.com quoted/mentioned throughout the article?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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  8. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Myopsida, you absolute scoundrel you!! I thought my glasses needed adjusting when I saw 'your version' of the cover!! :jester:

    I guess nobody cares that we also have a 4 page spread in the latest issue of SeaSpray (August/September 2003 issue); I think it is available in NZ and Australia only. :heee: (Tony, www.TONMO.com does get mention in this magazine article .... as 'one of the best sites around')... and we're presently doing a mini-doc on squid and fisheries.... busy times these are.
     
  9. Colin

    Colin Colossal Squid Supporter

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    heheheheheheh i love this quote :) :) :)

    "It's not very bright and it is trying to coordinate a metre-long penis."

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  10. Whitey

    Whitey Cuttlefish Registered

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    Hi Steve,
    Did you REALLY said the following?

    "If we are talking about a 200kg squid, this is an animal with a 20g brain," he told New Scientist.
    "It's not very bright and it is trying to coordinate a metre-long penis.
    "He's going to get a bit confused."

    ... or is it some kind of a journalist's misinterpretation of a joke?
    If you really think so, I've got no reason to believe you're wrong... and so it's a little bit disappointing, as I always thought cephalopods were quite intelligent and smart animals, "intellectualy" speaking...
    Cheers. :(
     
  11. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    :oops:
    I'm afraid it's all true - their brain weight isn't anything staggering - but the quote should have read ~ 150kg (weight of a male).

    .... I still haven't read the article. Down here at the very bottom of the world it takes a few days before magazines make their way over.

    There was one squid I remember years ago .... and I couldn't find the brain - it was like some pulpy sneezed glop. So perhaps there are bright giant squid ... and really thick ones too .... relatively speaking.

    ....but there's even more exciting news due out in August
    Stay tuned
    :grad:
     
  12. WhiteKiboko

    WhiteKiboko Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    it isnt out up here yet...i went searching and found out its available the week after the cover date (aug 2)
     
  13. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    Woo-hoo! Great news!! Haven't got my copies of these publications yet, but I will... even the SeaSpray one, somehow...

    Keep up the great work Steve -- I really appreciate that you allow us to make discoveries right along with you. How cool is that?
     
  14. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    I'll send you a copy of 'SeaSpray' Tony; tiz a good article.
    Cheers
    O
     
  15. Whitey

    Whitey Cuttlefish Registered

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    :notworth: Thanks Steve, but my question was not that much about brain's size and weight (I know it's relatively very small), but about your whole quote in this meaning that, when reading it, one has the feeling you think Architeuthis is some kind of a village idiot!
    I won't deny that brain size and weight have definitely got something to do with intelligence (... otherwise, what about OUR supposed superiority over the whole universe, hey?), but, if you consider sharks, for example (which is what I know the best, especially the Great White), the least one can say is that their brain is extremely far from being their most important organ!
    Nevertheless, the more we study their behaviour and the more we discover that they are quite smart, able to "learn" and memorize, and are, generally speaking, quite "sophisticated minded" animals.
    So do you think you can let me keep dreaming that, despite its tiny brain, Architeuthis is not simply a dumb piece of meat for spem whales... or do you think I definitely have to prepare for a heatrending reconsideration of my ideas about it? :cry:
     
  16. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

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    I'm sorry, but I think the animal is a bit of a dunce. Sure, it will do 'clever things' and look truly spectacular when alive, but I think it might be a bit repetitive in its actions.

    It makes all of us look a little stupid at the same time ... because we have yet to capture the elusive imagery of the world's most stupid squid on film. Maybe it is smarter than we think, or does its thinking in places other than its brain.
    Cheers
    O
     
  17. Whitey

    Whitey Cuttlefish Registered

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    :? Thanks a lot... for these disheartening informations.
    :idea: When playing backgammon on the net, I use the pseudonym 'Architeuthis'. As long as you won't have located the possible other place for its 'thinking', maybe I will think about taking another pseudo? (... and maybe I will win more often?)
    Cheers & beers (learnt the expression through an Australian guy : sounds up-to-date?).
     
  18. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    Hmm.... interesting discussion here... I'm not sure I understand the definition of "intelligence" in this context.

    I think I hear what Steve is saying when he suggests that Archi's might do things that are a bit repetitive (not surprising... really, how much original activity is there to do when you live in an open water column? :) )...

    I suppose it is romantic to think of Architeuthis as a deep sea genius -- certainly one of the things that is so attractive about all cephalopods is their seemingly remarkable "intelligence" -- certainly the octopuses in this forum have displayed some very clever and what would seem to be "thoughtful" behavior.

    There's also emotion to consider -- it seems that some octopuses, at least, at times get angry, afraid, content, playful, and perhaps even bored or depressed.

    It would be interesting to compare or rank the perceived "intelligence" of various animals including Architeuthis and, say, bimacs, along with that of a parrot, a hawk, a dog, a cat, a goldfish, a horse, a lizard... etc. etc.

    :cyclops:
     
  19. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    This is purely my opinion:

    I think it is worth remembering that octopuses that tend to be sold as pets come from shallow water habitats, often coral reefs, where in their natural habitat they are surrounded by visual and other sensual stimuli. They need finely tuned senses to detect the presence of predators, their own prey items and their own shelters. In other words, the habitat these animals live in is forever changing and would dictate an elevated awareness of their surroundings that is essential to their survival.

    A cephalopod living in the dark mid water columns or the abyssal depths would live in a much more stagnant and repetitive environment lacking diversity. In my opinion, this lack of stimulus would lead to a creature that is so much less aware of environmental stimuli (excluding the environment of its own niche) than its shallow water cousins. Whether or not this means that it is less 'intelligent' is a matter of choice and depends on how one wishes to define the term. Architeuthis, for example, is probably happy to hang there at, say, 600m depth at an angle waiting for prey to drift past. It has poor musculature implying that it does not need to chase after its prey or require the intelligence to know how to do so. With a net spread with its arms, it barely needs to 'think' as prey will drift its way towards it. The fact that the creature exists is enough to prove that.

    I think that anyone was fortunate enough to own a deepwater Vulcanoctopus or Grimpoteuthis in a tank at home would be sorely disappointed at the lack of 'intelligence' shown; 'intelligence' could be read as an awareness of the environment. I don't think that the fact that that pet octopi display intelligent behavioral traits should be indicative of coleoids as a whole, indeed, I think that it is purely a response to the environment that the particular species originates from.

    I would also wonder how much 'emotive' behaviour exhibited in octopi is an anthropomorphic projection what we wish to see. After all, we all know that when a cat rubs itself against your leg it is not genuinely showing affection, but merely rubbing its scent onto you to display territorial possession. Yet it's hard to recognise this, even if one knows it.

    But what do I know? I've never kept a pet goldfish, let alone a cephalopod! :lol:
     
  20. voltron

    voltron Blue Ring Registered

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    hm i think i saw a tv-documentation on octopusses some time ago where they did some sort of intelligence test. :grad: If i remember correctly the test was supposed to be some adjusted intelligence test for dogs (just underwater) and the octos were beating the dogs in this test:mrgreen:

    And regarding brain size...dolphins were always thought to be sooo clever because of their huge brain, but in recent examinations they found out that most of their brain is used up of their swimming/coordination skill, so they are in truth some specialised nerds :bugout:

    maybe archi just lacks the brain parts for clever diving stunts but got the necessary brain for really intelligent things in his head instead 8)


    feel free to correct me on the facts, it´s all tv-smattering (weird word):jester:
     

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