Mirror recognition by GPO?

inteligence when undefined is unmeasureble, still i think many of us have a 'gut feeling' of what we find as inteligent, if it reminds us of us it's inteligent?

Take a dog, to perspectives; some se dog as being smart because the person watching thinks he/she can se the emotional state of a dog happy, angry, jealus and so on, and can bribe it to do tricks. No one can tap into the dogs awareness and do a reading of how big the spark of awereness may be, or even if that correlates with inteligens(what ever it is), it's still a subjective judgement.
A person watching the same dog my se the dog a being stupid, because of the limitations a dog may show to have, for example lack of speach, or looking a the pointed finger rather then looking in the direktion of the finger, og barking at the ball you threw at it, and not barking at you, the lack of understandig the human term causality. So this second individual may regard the dog as being stupid, because unwittingly the dog is being compared to a human. So one could state that the dog is smart enough to seem stupid, because it is smart enougt to be seen in the reference frame of man.

I think few whould compare a mantis to a human in the same way as a dog(wittingly or unwittingly), and could be labeled as smart becouse it (maybe by cance) found a weak spot in a shell a smashed it there(i'm gettig a spec. tank for a peacock, absolutly facinating animal!).

As of brains and designs, if one taks sharks and birds, sharks have quite an impressive brain to total bodymass ratio.
White sharks employ different hunting tecniques depending on what and whare they eat, jumping out of water to cath seal near cape town but doing it close to nowhare else, lerned or inherited?
Birds, compleatly different brain design compared to mamals, they have no cortex, but have 'islands' or nerve cell clusters trough out the brain with the axons and dendrites stiking out(read it in illustreret videnskab).
Crows and ravens are by eksperiment known to pic a peace og steal thread form a wide range of materials, of appropriate leangth, and bending it into a hook and picking out food, never being shown any of this. Or as stated in the journal nature 22. feb. 2007(or just the podcast)how a scrubjay can remember and plan for the future(she mentions a the cortex thoug, conflicts whith brain sructure i described before, maybe they have both?), there is also the naked scientists podcast(06.05.07) on annimal behavior.

A brain is the most energy hungry organ per mass, so if it's big, it eats a lot! if it eats a lot, it better make up for it in other ways, in other words it's being used for information processing that in the past helped your parrents to survive long enough to conceive you, and the familiy line of smarty pants' goes on for now... hopfully to make kids with other smarty pants, and making even smarter kids and so on... unless the evirment dictates that streangth or some other trait be more faverable...

Is pure information processing potetial equevelant to inteligence? does the information processing have to envolve the usige of stored data to be inteligence, in other words, do you have to remember to be smart?
I personally find my selv looking at the processing potential when trying to evaluate the inteligens of somthing, i whuold not call a brittle star inteligent though it probably is of ancient design...

I think it is much in the eyes of the beholder. I do not personaly know what to make of the mirror experiment other then i find very facinating, i whould like to se a broader set of different experiments replicated on a larger number of specimens, before drawing anything that resembles a conclusion.

It was kinda more coherent in my head, and excuse my spelling, engilsh is my third language, not that i'm much better at spelling in danish or polish, im better at numbers at greek letters :nyah:. I think i use to many commas for english...
 
Roy had an interesting post on reef central discussing intelligence of an octopus vs a mantis shrimp (the post is quite old but Roy was voting for the mantis). He presented an interesting criteria for the comparision which included memory and socialization. Unfortunately, when I went to find the thread, Reef Central decided to do backups.
 
steenmillinder;100078 said:
i

It was kinda more coherent in my head, and excuse my spelling, engilsh is my third language, not that i'm much better at spelling in danish or polish, im better at numbers at greek letters :nyah:. I think i use to many commas for english...

I found it to be quite coherent, and certainly interesting. Considering that most of us only speak one language, and far too many of us don't spell well in the one language we speak, I think you will be forgiven for making a few spelling mistakes in your third language. :smile:
By the way, :welcome: to Tonmo.
 
sorseress;100101 said:
I found it to be quite coheent, and certainly interesting. Considering that most of us only speak one language, and far too many of us don't spell well in the one language we speak, I think you will be forgiven for making a few spelling mistakes in your third language. :smile:
By the way, :welcome: to Tonmo.

I'm very impressed by your grammar and coherence, too. I have less trouble with your spelling quirks than other posters' incoherent grammar and not-quite-making-sense styles of writing. I'm guessing from your eloquence at phrasing that you speak English very well, but haven't done as much reading and writing... I don't know if it would help, but the google toolbar has a spell-checker that will underline misspellings in red, which helps me catch mistakes often (although it's pretty conservative about marking foreign words, technical terms, slang, jargon, etc, also, so I've had to add things like Mesonychoteuthis and Spirula to its dictionary....) Of course, I probably shouldn't give advice, because I quit my Russian class just at the stage of learning the alphabet... I do OK in French sometimes, though...

Anyway, I said it elsewhere, but :welcome: to TONMO, and I'm far more impressed by your eloquent thoughts than I am confused by your spelling...
 
steenmillinder;100111 said:
tanks... that's what i call a warm welcoming, really cool site... and again thanks... but i can't find the google toolbar, maybe because i use safari on my mac?

toolbar.google.com is where to get it, but it looks like it only supports firefox and IE... I mostly run firefox, and it is available for the mac version of firefox... I don't know if safari has any other spellcheck options.
 
gjbarord;100019 said:
(has anyone read Kurt Vonnegut's Galapagos?)

My favorite Vonnegut! :cool2: Thanks a lot, big brain!

:welcome: steenmillinder.

Following this discussion with interest... I believe I have also most often heard intelligence defined (when necessary) as being associated with flexibility and the ability to try/learn/accept/build on new behaviors.
 
:welcome: steenmillinder

I wish some of the papers I grade were written as coherently as you write! Sometimes I couldn't figure out WHAT they were trying to tell me and I knew the subject matter!!!!!

And I agree that measures of intelligence are in the eye of the beholder, we want our favourite animals or pets to be clever, so that's what we see. Ultimately it all boils down to, can these animals survive in their environment and can they adapt to changing environments. Dogs and cats certainly have is sussed they've trained we humans to feed them, provide nice warm sleeping spots etc and all they have to do is offer a paw and look cute (or just exist if they're a cat :biggrin2:) :roflmao:

j
 

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